OK to MIx JVC ProHD and JVC DV Tapes...? at DVinfo.net

Jack Walker · August 12th, 2006, 01:42 AM

I just received the new camera. (I opted for the HD110 instead of the battery promotion.) I have bought and plan to use the JVC ProHD tapes for all HDV shooting -- as advised here and advised by a local JVC dealer who also rents the JVC cameras.

However, when shooting SD DV is there a problem switching to the JVC DV tapes?

Or is it advised to use only the ProHD tapes for everything? I also use DV Rack for long time shooting, which would be the only time I use SD DV, so the JVC DV tape would acutally just be a backup, and in these situations I use more than one camera, so I'm not concerned about an occasional glitch in the tape.

However, I don't want to mess up/dirty up the heads in the JVC camera -- but I don't know if this is an issue if sticking with the JVC tapes -- ProHD and DV.

(I also have the JVC VTR, but it will only be used for tapes from the JVC camera. Everything else I have is Sony, and with these cameras I use only Sony tapes, and I also have a VTR for the sony tapes.)

John Vincent · August 12th, 2006, 02:12 AM

Well, here's the thing - probably it'd be okay. It's not like you're putting a hunk of peanut butter into it...

But, this camera, while being almost supernaturally tough in some ways, does seem finicky in others. When it comes to to tapes, it seems (perhaps inescapably so) to be band tape senitive. Also, I doubt too many here have done exactly what you're trying.

Me? I think the risk is low. But, this is a new technology doing what even 5 years ago would've seemed impossible, or at least prohibitive money wise. Fact is, even if it did work w/someone else's camera, it might not work out 4 you. It's what you'd risk. Let us know... And good luck.

john
evilgeniusentertainment.com

Tom Chaney · August 12th, 2006, 05:01 AM

I wouldn't do it!

Why would you risk missing something just to save a few bucks?

There are plenty of forums here that specifically state problems related to this issue.

Pretty much it appears that you should stick with one type of tape and not switch.

Just my opinion.

Tom

Scott Jaco · August 12th, 2006, 05:54 AM

I use the cheap $3 Sony Premium tapes for standard & HDV recording.

They seam to work out fine for both formats. I'm not really shooting anything critical enough that I would spend $10 per tape. The dropouts are minimal. I'm only charging $40-$50/hr right now. I'm not interested in spending 25% of my hourly rate for tape stock. Screw that!

When I get more business, I can raise my rates and perhaps incorporate the better tapes into the deal.

Justin Deming · August 12th, 2006, 06:16 AM

Using the cheaper tapes shouldn't be a big problem as long as you stick to the same type. Different brands of tapes use different types of lubrication, and mixing those can cause problems. If / When you decide you must switch to a different tape, run a cleaning tape before putting the new one in. Don't just switch back and forth though, pick a tape and keep with it until you are forced to change.

I need to re-read about the JVC tapes, but a book I got about this stuff mentioned that some brands had no difference in the actual tape, just that the professional ones had a more sturdy case.

I just bought an HD-100 (probbably the last one), and where I am for now I cannot get the professional tapes. So I will use the regular JVC tapes till I get back to to the US, then run a cleaning tape before switching. If I switch at all, if I do not see dropouts, I will not switch.

Shai Camerini · August 12th, 2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco

I use the cheap $3 Sony Premium tapes for standard & HDV recording.

I use the 3$ sony tapes too, for 120 drum Hr till now, haven't sean any drops or quality lost

Jonathan Nelson · August 13th, 2006, 12:08 AM

I use the sony cheap tapes too!

Always stick to the same brand.

Brian Luce · August 13th, 2006, 02:41 AM

even if you did switch brands (which some folks do all the freakin' time) wouldn't a pass through a head cleaner reset everything anyway?

Shai Camerini · August 13th, 2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

even if you did switch brands (which some folks do all the freakin' time) wouldn't a pass through a head cleaner reset everything anyway?

It supposed to do that, but remember that the cleaning tape can do a lot of damage to the video head, so don't use it too often.

William Hohauser · August 14th, 2006, 07:23 PM

Don't get complacent about the tapes. I was happily shooting on Fuji DV tapes until I had a serious amount of dropouts on one tape during an important shoot. That was a real problem. I decided that I should try "HDV" tape instead. I was shooting with JVC's "HDV" tape and guess what? Suddenly one tape had the worst set of dropouts I've experienced yet. Unfortunately these are recorded dropouts not playback problems. Fortunately it wasn't a client shoot, just some vacation footage. The next tape was fine.

I have a Focus Enhancements hard disk recorder on order. I'm never going to be in that position again until tape production is improved.

Gary Williams · August 14th, 2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hohauser

Don't get complacent about the tapes. I was happily shooting on Fuji DV tapes until I had a serious amount of dropouts on one tape during an important shoot. That was a real problem. I decided that I should try "HDV" tape instead. I was shooting with JVC's "HDV" tape and guess what? Suddenly one tape had the worst set of dropouts I've experienced yet. Unfortunately these are recorded dropouts not playback problems. Fortunately it wasn't a client shoot, just some vacation footage. The next tape was fine.

I have a Focus Enhancements hard disk recorder on order. I'm never going to be in that position again until tape production is improved.

I use Sony professional HDV tape and get a bad tape once in a great while but I review my footage every time I shoot to make sure there is no problems.

Carl Martin · August 15th, 2006, 06:18 AM

When cleaning the heads with the head cleaning cassette, does it also clean the record head? If not, how should I clean the record head?

Thanks.

Steve Mullen · August 15th, 2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Martin

When cleaning the heads with the head cleaning cassette, does it also clean the record head? If not, how should I clean the record head?

Thanks.

The "heads" are all one unit.

The rumors of head cleaning tapes causing damage seem IMHO to be either from someone playing them past a count of 10 -- or there having already been some damage -- which is why they were trying to clean the heads -- and the cleaning tape gets the blame.

I also have mixed tapes from day 1 of HDV. Some JVC DV, some Sony DV, some Panasonic DV, plus JVC ProHD and Sony HDV and Sony DVCAM. It seems all work fine. BUT, the probability of encountering a bad tape as well as the probability of DO is LIKELY lower with the PRO tapes or HDV tapes.

So I see the extra cost as insurance.

As far as mixing tapes -- when I get equipment for review they usually include some of their own tapes. Overtime, without even thinking about it, I've used every brand of tape in every brand of equipment. Wet or dry -- I've never experiened any difference. So if I was on location I wouldn't panic if I had to run another brand.

But as insurance I would use the head cleaning tape.

And as insurance I would try to stay with one brand.

Carl Martin · August 15th, 2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The "heads" are all one unit.

The rumors of head cleaning tapes causing damage seem IMHO to be either from someone playing them past a count of 10 -- or there having already been some damage -- which is why they were trying to clean the heads -- and the cleaning tape gets the blame.

I also have mixed tapes from day 1 of HDV. Some JVC DV, some Sony DV, some Panasonic DV, plus JVC ProHD and Sony HDV and Sony DVCAM. It seems all work fine. BUT, the probability of encountering a bad tape as well as the probability of DO is LIKELY lower with the PRO tapes or HDV tapes.

So I see the extra cost as insurance.

As far as mixing tapes -- when I get equipment for review they usually include some of their own tapes. Overtime, without even thinking about it, I've used every brand of tape in every brand of equipment. Wet or dry -- I've never experiened any difference. So if I was on location I wouldn't panic if I had to run another brand.

But as insurance I would use the head cleaning tape.

And as insurance I would try to stay with one brand.

Ok, thanks.

Jack Walker · August 15th, 2006, 04:40 PM

What has confused me is why make a machine that plays DVCAM (not records) if one should not put Sony tapes in that machine if you also put JVC tapes in that machine.

Obviously, many, many DVCAM shot tapes are going to be on Sony tape. I have the JVC vcr, but the JVC rep advised me not to put Sony tapes in it -- so why does it play DVCAM?

It seems that Panasonic makes JVC and Canon tapes, so I suppose these three should theoretically be compatible in regards to tape lubricant.

The original problem a few years ago was the lubicrants on the Panasonic vs. the Sony tapes. When mixed, these became tacky. However, I have been told this problem no longer exists. I don't know if this is true. A long time ago I mixed TDK and Sony mini DV tapes regularly, and never had a problem.

I bought the JVC ProHD tapes, but before I put one in the camera, I wonder if I should just use Sony tapes in the JVC camera, since everything else I have is Sony.

I originally bought the BR-HD50U thinking I could get rid of my DSR-11 -- thinking that if it played DVCAM tapes, it would be no problem putting Sony tapes in it. At the moment I have decided to keep the DSR-11 until I make a final decision on what tape to use in the HD110 camera.

As a side note -- in the vtr, is there a problem mixing mini cassettes and full size cassettes in the same machine?

August 12th, 2006, 01:42 AM	#1
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	OK to MIx JVC ProHD and JVC DV Tapes...? I just received the new camera. (I opted for the HD110 instead of the battery promotion.) I have bought and plan to use the JVC ProHD tapes for all HDV shooting -- as advised here and advised by a local JVC dealer who also rents the JVC cameras. However, when shooting SD DV is there a problem switching to the JVC DV tapes? Or is it advised to use only the ProHD tapes for everything? I also use DV Rack for long time shooting, which would be the only time I use SD DV, so the JVC DV tape would acutally just be a backup, and in these situations I use more than one camera, so I'm not concerned about an occasional glitch in the tape. However, I don't want to mess up/dirty up the heads in the JVC camera -- but I don't know if this is an issue if sticking with the JVC tapes -- ProHD and DV. (I also have the JVC VTR, but it will only be used for tapes from the JVC camera. Everything else I have is Sony, and with these cameras I use only Sony tapes, and I also have a VTR for the sony tapes.)

August 12th, 2006, 02:12 AM	#2
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	Risk vs benefit Well, here's the thing - probably it'd be okay. It's not like you're putting a hunk of peanut butter into it... But, this camera, while being almost supernaturally tough in some ways, does seem finicky in others. When it comes to to tapes, it seems (perhaps inescapably so) to be band tape senitive. Also, I doubt too many here have done exactly what you're trying. Me? I think the risk is low. But, this is a new technology doing what even 5 years ago would've seemed impossible, or at least prohibitive money wise. Fact is, even if it did work w/someone else's camera, it might not work out 4 you. It's what you'd risk. Let us know... And good luck. john evilgeniusentertainment.com

August 14th, 2006, 07:23 PM	#10
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Don't get complacent about the tapes. I was happily shooting on Fuji DV tapes until I had a serious amount of dropouts on one tape during an important shoot. That was a real problem. I decided that I should try "HDV" tape instead. I was shooting with JVC's "HDV" tape and guess what? Suddenly one tape had the worst set of dropouts I've experienced yet. Unfortunately these are recorded dropouts not playback problems. Fortunately it wasn't a client shoot, just some vacation footage. The next tape was fine. I have a Focus Enhancements hard disk recorder on order. I'm never going to be in that position again until tape production is improved. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

August 12th, 2006, 05:01 AM	#3
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	I wouldn't do it! Why would you risk missing something just to save a few bucks? There are plenty of forums here that specifically state problems related to this issue. Pretty much it appears that you should stick with one type of tape and not switch. Just my opinion. Tom

August 12th, 2006, 05:54 AM	#4
Scott Jaco Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 471	I use the cheap $3 Sony Premium tapes for standard & HDV recording. They seam to work out fine for both formats. I'm not really shooting anything critical enough that I would spend $10 per tape. The dropouts are minimal. I'm only charging $40-$50/hr right now. I'm not interested in spending 25% of my hourly rate for tape stock. Screw that! When I get more business, I can raise my rates and perhaps incorporate the better tapes into the deal.

August 12th, 2006, 06:16 AM	#5
Justin Deming Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Minneapolis, MA Posts: 84	Using the cheaper tapes shouldn't be a big problem as long as you stick to the same type. Different brands of tapes use different types of lubrication, and mixing those can cause problems. If / When you decide you must switch to a different tape, run a cleaning tape before putting the new one in. Don't just switch back and forth though, pick a tape and keep with it until you are forced to change. I need to re-read about the JVC tapes, but a book I got about this stuff mentioned that some brands had no difference in the actual tape, just that the professional ones had a more sturdy case. I just bought an HD-100 (probbably the last one), and where I am for now I cannot get the professional tapes. So I will use the regular JVC tapes till I get back to to the US, then run a cleaning tape before switching. If I switch at all, if I do not see dropouts, I will not switch.

August 13th, 2006, 12:08 AM	#7
Jonathan Nelson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kingman Arizona Posts: 298	I use the sony cheap tapes too! Always stick to the same brand.

August 13th, 2006, 02:41 AM	#8
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	even if you did switch brands (which some folks do all the freakin' time) wouldn't a pass through a head cleaner reset everything anyway?

August 15th, 2006, 06:18 AM	#12
Carl Martin Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York Posts: 164	When cleaning the heads with the head cleaning cassette, does it also clean the record head? If not, how should I clean the record head? Thanks.

August 15th, 2006, 04:40 PM	#15
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	What has confused me is why make a machine that plays DVCAM (not records) if one should not put Sony tapes in that machine if you also put JVC tapes in that machine. Obviously, many, many DVCAM shot tapes are going to be on Sony tape. I have the JVC vcr, but the JVC rep advised me not to put Sony tapes in it -- so why does it play DVCAM? It seems that Panasonic makes JVC and Canon tapes, so I suppose these three should theoretically be compatible in regards to tape lubricant. The original problem a few years ago was the lubicrants on the Panasonic vs. the Sony tapes. When mixed, these became tacky. However, I have been told this problem no longer exists. I don't know if this is true. A long time ago I mixed TDK and Sony mini DV tapes regularly, and never had a problem. I bought the JVC ProHD tapes, but before I put one in the camera, I wonder if I should just use Sony tapes in the JVC camera, since everything else I have is Sony. I originally bought the BR-HD50U thinking I could get rid of my DSR-11 -- thinking that if it played DVCAM tapes, it would be no problem putting Sony tapes in it. At the moment I have decided to keep the DSR-11 until I make a final decision on what tape to use in the HD110 camera. As a side note -- in the vtr, is there a problem mixing mini cassettes and full size cassettes in the same machine?