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Old October 15th, 2006, 11:04 PM   #1
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Stereo Mic Ideas

any suggestions for a on camera stereo mic ?

a month ago I used a Sure VP-88 - a great mic, excellent low end for what it is, but very large and heavy for on camera use. I had it mounted in the hot shoe with an adaptor I had that went hot shoe to 5/8 thread I made. stupid thing was constantly coming loose because of the mic size and weight. so, any suggestions ? I was thinking of two smaller condensors on a T bracket mounted on the hot shoe. Maybe even a pair of lavs, but I'm sure they would not have great bottom end.

for 5.1, I'm using a MOTU 896HD into my power book, but thats a whole other story.


Steve Oakley
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Old October 15th, 2006, 11:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Oakley
any suggestions for a on camera stereo mic ?

a month ago I used a Sure VP-88 - a great mic, excellent low end for what it is, but very large and heavy for on camera use. I had it mounted in the hot shoe with an adaptor I had that went hot shoe to 5/8 thread I made. stupid thing was constantly coming loose because of the mic size and weight. so, any suggestions ? I was thinking of two smaller condensors on a T bracket mounted on the hot shoe. Maybe even a pair of lavs, but I'm sure they would not have great bottom end.

for 5.1, I'm using a MOTU 896HD into my power book, but thats a whole other story.


Steve Oakley
How about a Rode NT4? You can mount the barrel right in your mic holder.
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Old October 16th, 2006, 12:33 AM   #3
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Perhaps ideal is the short (9 inch) stereo shotgun from Audio Technica, the AT835ST, that is good on the camera, has adjustable patterns, etc. (Weight: 3.6 oz.):
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...fa7/index.html

At B&H this mic is $599.95:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search


Here's another option from AT, the AT825 (Weight 8.5 oz.):
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...e09/index.html

At B&H for $349.95 with free shipping:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

The info says that it is good for on camera use.

The Rode is 1-1/8" in diameter... does it fit in the JVC mount?... or do you mean in a mount like the AT8415, which will take bigger mics. The Rode is also 16.9 oz. about 3 oz. heavier than the Shure VP88.

Here is the Audio Technica stereo mic page:
http://www.audio-technica.com/cgi-bi...ones%3A+Stereo

Everything else on this page is unbalanced... and would need an adapter to use with the JVC cameras.

The AT stereo shotguns are on this page:
http://www.audio-technica.com/cgi-bi...nes%3A+Shotgun

Last edited by Jack Walker; October 16th, 2006 at 03:57 AM.
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Old October 16th, 2006, 12:42 PM   #4
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thanks... the rode looks interesting, and I'm sure its price will too. I'm not a big fan of anything AT. I'd have to hear the mic before buying one. I guess I'll look at what the various mic manufactors have on their websites.


Steve O
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Old October 16th, 2006, 10:40 PM   #5
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An interesting stereo microphone is made by Pearl which records Mid Side. Their most recent offering has I understand a hypercardiod element. By all accounts a superior microphone.

Rob
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Old October 18th, 2006, 08:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Oakley
thanks... the rode looks interesting, and I'm sure its price will too. I'm not a big fan of anything AT. I'd have to hear the mic before buying one. I guess I'll look at what the various mic manufactors have on their websites.
Steve O
I think the original poster was looking for a mic that wasn't so heavy that it was going to break the shoe mount on the camera. The Rode is HEAVIER than the one the original poster said was too heavy.

Most people recording quality stereo sound use twin mics.

For an on camera stereo mic, I don't think you'll beat the first AT mentioned above.

If you're having trouble recording with AT mics, there may be a problem with your setup. Nevertheless, they are used ubiquitously professionally with excellent results. And certain of their mics, like the 4051 and 4053 are known to get a good voice recording in cases where nothing else will work, including the $3000 short shotguns.

And then, an expensive short shotgun on the camera, like the new blue Schoeps, is SO sensitive to motion and touch, that it may well prove unusable on the camera.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 08:10 PM   #7
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Here's a page with a whole bunch of stereo microphones, including all the ones (even the Pearl) mentioned above, and some more:

http://www.pro-sound.com/Catalog/HANDHELD/3.htm
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Old October 18th, 2006, 08:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
I think the original poster was looking for a mic that wasn't so heavy that it was going to break the shoe mount on the camera. The Rode is HEAVIER than the one the original poster said was too heavy..
That's just it, why use the shoe? Use the stereo mic in the holder and eschew the stock mic to your case or bag. I guarantee the Rode NT4 is not heavier than a Senn e835 + skp100 like I had to use overseas when my shotgun mic bit the dust. The combo of the Senn e835 & skp100 didn't stop me in the least because of weight.

check it out in the pic.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 08:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
I think the original poster was looking for a mic that wasn't so heavy that it was going to break the shoe mount on the camera. The Rode is HEAVIER than the one the original poster said was too heavy.

If you're having trouble recording with AT mics, there may be a problem with your setup. Nevertheless, they are used ubiquitously professionally with excellent results. And certain of their mics, like the 4051 and 4053 are known to get a good voice recording in cases where nothing else will work, including the $3000 short shotguns.

And then, an expensive short shotgun on the camera, like the new blue Schoeps, is SO sensitive to motion and touch, that it may well prove unusable on the camera.
I wasn''t worried about breaking it off, but it was ackward to work with, and always coming loose. actually the mic bracket on the camera seems flimsy. I used a simply custom bracket on my big sony cameras for years - the original folding mic bracket for the camera broke the 2nd time I took it out after a very minor bump.

As for AT mics, I did work once about 8 years ago with one of their shotguns and thought is was ok, but I just don't like how their mics sound regardless of what you use to record them.

Shoeps has a really nice looking stereo mic, but I'm sure its $2k. I don't want to spend that kind of cash, but then again, it might be one of those career investments that hurts at first, then you never look back.

I curently have a ecm-672 which is a nice mic provided its not exposed to high sound volume for exteneded periods. I've found that this "wears out" the mic and it loses sensetivity and clarity. the mic has always been used with its windscreen, and while exposed to cig. smoke, never to anything worse. maybe just tar build up. anyone clean these things ? also its too fat to fit the JVC holder, which again brings me back to wanting a better mic holder. who knows, maybe I fabricate one.

on my last shoot I recorded 5.1. we used two me66's pointed L & R on a T bracket, and a AKG3000 as the center. the rear two channels were my 672 and some other shotgun I don't recall. these where set 10ft L & R from the main array facing backwards. this worked fine since what we where shooting was moving over several hundred feet. sounded fine.

so back to topic, a lightwieght stereo mic that preferably will fit in the hold ( as many mic are too fat ) and that preferably doesn't cost $2k+.

Steve Oakley
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Old October 18th, 2006, 08:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
That's just it, why use the shoe? Use the stereo mic in the holder and eschew the stock mic to your case or bag. I guarantee the Rode NT4 is not heavier than a Senn e835 + skp100 like I had to use overseas when my shotgun mic bit the dust. The combo of the Senn e835 & skp100 didn't stop me in the least because of weight.

check it out in the pic.
At this point in this discussion, I'm lost.

The Sennheiser E835 + SK100 are almost 18 ounces. In addition, not stereo, not condenser... a handheld mic for an announcer.

The AT835ST is 3.6 ounces, and it is made for the use as outlined in the original post. The field is switchable and will give excellent sound for on camera use (which is not the way to record anyway, but for stereo ambience, I suppose it's fine.)

The Rode won't fit the camera holder, and it weighs 17 ounces. The original mic that caused the problems (VP88) was only 14 ounces.

Different AT mics sound different, as do the lines, and AT makes reasonably priced professional offerings to fit different purposes. For example, the AT835b has been used in documentaries for ages, and it can't be beat for being totally handheld, having very, very, low noise, being rugged and providing moderate shotgun range with a nice proximity effect when moving in for close-ups, all on the run. However, the AT4073 is the right choice for exceptional sound on boom outdoors. The 4000 series one-inch condenser mics make good VO mics and were used by NBC on the last Olympics for all the voiceover work. They were also used for stereo ambience in the sports venues.

If you're recording feature dialog, the new Schoeps is the darling on the block... but it can be tricky to use, and I don't think it's necessarily the right choice for an ENG or documentary situation.

Here's something you can try for an interesting stereo effect. Put a wireless omni on each of two people and have them wander about out in the crowd you are shooting. But make sure they are kind of inconspicuous 'cause they'll be in all the wide shots.

And back to the topic:
"so back to topic, a lightwieght stereo mic that preferably will fit in the hold ( as many mic are too fat ) and that preferably doesn't cost $2k+."

The AT835ST at 9 inches and 3.6 ounces, costing $600 at B&H, is what your looking for. Go somewhere and try one... then take the recording and ade a little eq, and I think you'll get what you want. This is assuming you are shooting one-man, on-camera, etc.

If you've got a big crew and hours of setup time, etc. etc. etc., another solution is for you.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 09:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
At this point in this discussion, I'm lost.

The Sennheiser E835 + SK100 are almost 18 ounces. In addition, not stereo, not condenser... a handheld mic for an announcer.

The AT835ST is 3.6 ounces, and it is made for the use as outlined in the original post. The field is switchable and will give excellent sound for on camera use (which is not the way to record anyway, but for stereo ambience, I suppose it's fine.)

The Rode won't fit the camera holder, and it weighs 17 ounces. The original mic that caused the problems (VP88) was only 14 ounces.

Different AT mics sound different, as do the lines, and AT makes reasonably priced professional offerings to fit different purposes. For example, the AT835b has been used in documentaries for ages, and it can't be beat for being totally handheld, having very, very, low noise, being rugged and providing moderate shotgun range with a nice proximity effect when moving in for close-ups, all on the run. However, the AT4073 is the right choice for exceptional sound on boom outdoors. The 4000 series one-inch condenser mics make good VO mics and were used by NBC on the last Olympics for all the voiceover work. They were also used for stereo ambience in the sports venues.

If you're recording feature dialog, the new Schoeps is the darling on the block... but it can be tricky to use, and I don't think it's necessarily the right choice for an ENG or documentary situation.

Here's something you can try for an interesting stereo effect. Put a wireless omni on each of two people and have them wander about out in the crowd you are shooting. But make sure they are kind of inconspicuous 'cause they'll be in all the wide shots.

And back to the topic:
"so back to topic, a lightwieght stereo mic that preferably will fit in the hold ( as many mic are too fat ) and that preferably doesn't cost $2k+."

The AT835ST at 9 inches and 3.6 ounces, costing $600 at B&H, is what your looking for. Go somewhere and try one... then take the recording and ade a little eq, and I think you'll get what you want. This is assuming you are shooting one-man, on-camera, etc.

If you've got a big crew and hours of setup time, etc. etc. etc., another solution is for you.
Weren't you referring to weight? An NT4 doesn't weight as much as an e835 + SKP100....
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Old October 18th, 2006, 10:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
Weren't you referring to weight? An NT4 doesn't weight as much as an e835 + SKP100....
The Rode NT4 weighs 16.9 ounces.
The e835 (11.64 ounces) + SKP100 (6.88 ounces) weighs 18.52 ounces.

The NT4 is 1.62 ounces less in weight.

The mic I suggested, the AT835ST (3.6 ounces), weighs 14.92 ounces less in weight.

And I think I've finished my responding to this thread, since I've given the weights three times, and judging from the original post and succeeding posts from both the original poster and others, I must assume the original post was a troll.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 10:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
The Rode NT4 weighs 16.9 ounces.
The e835 (11.64 ounces) + SKP100 (6.88 ounces) weighs 18.52 ounces.

The NT4 is 1.62 ounces less in weight.

The mic I suggested, the AT835ST (3.6 ounces), weighs 14.92 ounces less in weight.

And I think I've finished my responding to this thread, since I've given the weights three times, and judging from the original post and succeeding posts from both the original poster and others, I must assume the original post was a troll.
Jack,

All I'm saying is that the e835 setup wasn't a burden in the least so it's likely the NT4 wouldn't present any problems either.

S.Noe
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Old October 18th, 2006, 10:24 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
Jack,

All I'm saying is that the e835 setup wasn't a burden in the least so it's likely the NT4 wouldn't present any problems either.

S.Noe
Actually, I agree with you, but in this case both are heavier than the mic that was too heavy in the original post.

However, I also think the 1-1/8 inch barrel on the NT4 is too thick for the camera mount... and I think the exposed dual cartridges on the NT4 are not well-suited to on-camera, run-and-gun use... but anything is possible, and probably been done.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 10:41 PM   #15
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Jack, you had some good comments. just based on 90% bad exerpiance with AT mics, I wouldn't just go out and get one without giving it a try. I truely don't like how they sound, generally thin and flat. I want some bottom end, with clarity.

I just bought speakers, and I would not buy speakers without A/Bing them. its an ear opening experiance. its was not about price within reason,but I found some of the better sounding speakers also turned out to be one of the cheaper pairs, go figure.

Ideally I'd rent a mic or get one for a few days from a dealer for eval before spending. I'd likely almost buy anything except AT based on only ONE previous good experience amongst many bad ones with AT products. So I don't really care what everyone else is doing, it would have to impress me in my hands. That said, Sanken had some interesting mics, including two short stereo shotguns, as did that one page with all those stereo mics listed.

On the last shoot I did, I used the VP88 camera mounted mic quite a few times. I faked the back channels by offsetting the same L/R a few frames, and a little eq. there was no dialog involved, only the noise of big construction equipment at work.

Steve Oakley
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