Where or when is the HZ CA13U ?

Carl Hicks · December 13th, 2006, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Setnes

is this really gonna cost more than a grand?

List price is $4395.00. Remember, this is not just an empty tube. There are some high-grade optics inside that allow the 16mm format lens to retain the same angle of view and DOF on our video cameras, as if it were on a film camera. This is not an easy task, thus the cost.

Regards,

Matt Setnes · December 14th, 2006, 12:07 AM

I understand this, but a highgrade relay lens and just for 16mm lenses. It just seems to be to high in competition with 35 adapters out there. I don't know, I had my hopes up, with the price, I'm only leaning towards Zacuto's 35 adapter now.

Burk Webb · December 14th, 2006, 02:58 AM

If anybody has their hands on this puppy I would love to see some test shots. More importantly, where can I rent this thing?

Carl Hicks · December 14th, 2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burk Webb

If anybody has their hands on this puppy I would love to see some test shots. More importantly, where can I rent this thing?

Burk,

It has not shipped yet. Not due in the country for a couple of weeks.

Regards,

Brian Duke · December 30th, 2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

How did you find that? Just by searching the JVC site for HD200? I'm surprised they posted the press release on the website so early.

If the price for the HZ-CA13U is $3995, then it will sell well! That's less than half of a full P+S Mini35 setup, without the fuss.

Tim isn't there a difference between the Mini35 and the HZ-CA13U? The Mini35 allows 35mm lenses, as opposed to 16mm. I wish they had a way to mount Nikon lenses directly to the HD200 so you don't lose the amount of light you do with the mini35. Do you lose light with the HZ-CA13U? Anyone knows?

Miklos Philips · January 1st, 2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

Hi,

Sorry, about all I know is that it's a 1/3" bayonet mount to 16mm PL lens adaptor, and it's designed to retain the same angle of view as the PL lens in most cases. The picture will come out inverted to the camera, but with the image flip of the GY-HD250U and GY-HD200U, you can correct this in real time.

Regards, Carl

So, how are we HD100 owners supposed to use it? I'm very disappointed in JVC's delays with this piece of equipment. The HZ-CA13U was one of the reasons I bought the HD100. Now, I'm seeing that despite it's price and optics it will not even give me a properly upright image, so it will be kind of useless to me unless I upgrade to the HD200. I'm just sick and tired of camera makers and electronics companies that announce certain pieces of equipment in order to lure potential buyers into buying a piece of equipment and then not delivering on their promises.

Carl Hicks · January 1st, 2007, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miklos Philips

So, how are we HD100 owners supposed to use it? I'm very disappointed in JVC's delays with this piece of equipment. The HZ-CA13U was one of the reasons I bought the HD100. Now, I'm seeing that despite it's price and optics it will not even give me a properly upright image, so it will be kind of useless to me unless I upgrade to the HD200. I'm just sick and tired of camera makers and electronics companies that announce certain pieces of equipment in order to lure potential buyers into buying a piece of equipment and then not delivering on their promises.

Hi Miklos,

Quite a few GY-HD100U and GY-HD110U owners are already using film lens adaptors that produce an inverted image on a GY-HD100 or GY-HD110U. Redrock Micro and Zork are two examples. You invert the image back to normal in post. Most NLE's can accomplish this task.

See this thread for a successful project shot on a GY-HD100U with a film lens.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=81871

Inverting the image in real time prior to recording, like what our GY-HD200/250 can do requires more camera horsepower, thus the higher cost. Or, you can use the PS Tech Mini 35 on your GY-HD100U and get a right-side-up image.

The ProHD family is continually evolving and growing. We bring new products to market as the technology for new features are finished, and not before.

The GY-HD100/110 do what we claim they will do, and the GY-HD200/250 do what we claim they will do. There is no deception here.

Craig Yanagi · January 4th, 2007, 11:42 PM

If the history of the ProHD product line is traced, there is actually no sign of a film lens adapter or image inversion in the description of the GY-HD100 and its accessories. This is because these concepts were never planned in the beginning, and had not been put on the drawing board until a little over a year ago. When the concept was eventually green-lighted, the combination of a GY-HD200 camcorder and HZ-CA13 16mm film lens adapter was born.

The final judgement of introducing the GY-HD200 and the HZ-CA13 was that the two were to be used in combination, and it is the combination of the two that provides proper image recording. This is the concept system that was introduced at NAB 2006.

The image inversion capability wasn't anything new to the industry - a Digital Betacam camcorder that had image inversion existed almost a decade ago, but the concept of making a film on a camcorder was ill-accepted despite the efforts of the product designers, and so the feature went away. Angenieux has a HZ-CA13 like-product for adaptation of 35mm and 16mm film lenses to 2/3" mount, which was most probably designed for the DigiBeta with the image inversion capability, but its cost was around $30k. Other lens manufacturers had considered creating film lens adapters for current cameras available in the marketplace, but as exemplified in the Angenieux product, the implementation of the technology is an expensive and complicated proposition. The Pro35 and Mini35 lens adapters are alternatives to an all-optical solution that also brings down the cost of the adapter. The M2 brings the cost down even further by using the camera lens as the image relay and not inverting the image - image inversion is accomplished through the use of software in post, as we know well through the works of Taylor Wigton.

JVC found the potential for use of 16mm film lenses from two sources: filmmakers that own 16mm or prefer these lenses and wanted to somehow utilize them with the current cameras, and the need for high grade glass in order for smaller CCD's to aquire good images. So, since there is an abundance of 16mm film lenses in the world, why not utilize them? And wouldn't it be ideal to use it on a platform that's HD and native progressive 24p, on a standard that has the potential of editing as simply as DV? Wasn't this what the independents are asking for? The deduction was quite easy, but the technology necessary to make the film lens adapter that would be both functinally viable and affordable was a challenge for any manufacturer.

Fortunately, JVC also has years of experience in optics design and research, and because of this technological resource, the creation of the HZ-CA13 was possible. However, since this was a major undertaking of an all-optics configuration design which started from a blank canvas, multiple iterations had to be made to obtain the best possible product. The current version has been optimized three times in the past two months, working with filmmakers in making sure that this product is viable. Upon completion, which is imminent, the HZ-CA13 will be a true production tool for the independent digital filmmaker, enabling them to utilize the most vital part of the camera, the glass.

The combination of the HZ-CA13 with either the GY-HD200 or GY-HD250 and a 16mm film lens is a production system that was years in the making, in the minds (and dare I say hearts) of many filmmakers looking for such a solution. With a camcorder offering thats HD and SD switchable, native 24p, an affordable working platform with equally affordable yet robust NLE choices, and now with an even wider choice of glass options, one that's not available within a range of tens of thousands of dollars, it's truly a great time to be an indie.

Our deepest and humble gratitude to the supporters of ProHD, to whom we strive to bring out the potential of our products.

Andy Graham · January 5th, 2007, 05:58 AM

Craig, I have to say everying you said makes sense to me, people tend to take how complicated the science is when dealing with optics for granted. I started in video production in 98 and the leaps and bounds in technology since then is truely incredible and as you say it is only going to evolve. You guys could just as easily forget about helping the little guys who want to make films and aim your product at the $20,000 dollar and upwards market and I for one appreciate it.

A couple of things i would like to ask, do you have a counterpart here in Europe? (obviously you do ). Why is he not a member of DVinfo? and why is it that America seems to get all the promotions and free kit with their cameras?. Our cameras cost more over here and we get less with them, I havn't read this whole thread but i'de bet my lunch money that the HZ-CA13 isn't available to Europe. I hate to sound like i'm complaining but more often than not i have read a thread that states ONLY FOR US at the top, Carl talks about the Pro HD Family so i guess that would make America the favourate Son and Europe the Black Sheep. As I said I'm sorry to complain but you are an important man at JVC and I thought you could shed some light.

Andy.

Stephen L. Noe · January 5th, 2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miklos Philips

So, how are we HD100 owners supposed to use it? I'm very disappointed in JVC's delays with this piece of equipment. The HZ-CA13U was one of the reasons I bought the HD100. Now, I'm seeing that despite it's price and optics it will not even give me a properly upright image, so it will be kind of useless to me unless I upgrade to the HD200. I'm just sick and tired of camera makers and electronics companies that announce certain pieces of equipment in order to lure potential buyers into buying a piece of equipment and then not delivering on their promises.

Yes, it's upside down Miklos but the light loss with the aparatus is negligeable compared to sending it through more lens' to get the image upside right. There are some plus and minus aspects to it on every front. The real problem I see is framing the image with the aparatus attached to the HD-100/110. Up is down, right is left and etc. The magnet trick would be good for this but has anyone gotten it to work?

Jamon Lewis · January 5th, 2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

Hi Miklos,

Quite a few GY-HD100U and GY-HD110U owners are already using film lens adaptors that produce an inverted image on a GY-HD100 or GY-HD110U. Redrock Micro and Zork are two examples. You invert the image back to normal in post. Most NLE's can accomplish this task.

See this thread for a successful project shot on a GY-HD100U with a film lens.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=81871

Inverting the image in real time prior to recording, like what our GY-HD200/250 can do requires more camera horsepower, thus the higher cost. Or, you can use the PS Tech Mini 35 on your GY-HD100U and get a right-side-up image.

The ProHD family is continually evolving and growing. We bring new products to market as the technology for new features are finished, and not before.

The GY-HD100/110 do what we claim they will do, and the GY-HD200/250 do what we claim they will do. There is no deception here.

Carl and or Craig, I am a fellow HD100 owner i understand and share Miklos pain as a big part of the reason I purchased the HD-100 instead of the HVX200 was the ability to take the lense off the HD100 and put other higher quality and /or cine lenses on the camera whether via adapter or however...

At the same time i understand that a dollar a year from now will get you something better, higher quality, more technologically advanced, how ever you wanna say it, than that same dollar will get you today...

With that said could more consideration been given to HD100 and 110 owners with regard to this adapter? I realized that it's more complex than a firmware update, but is there anything, some sort of consideration as a sort of gratitude, allegiance, support of what ever the correct word would be, to people who have chosen to support and purchase JVC products?

Thanks

Burk Webb · January 5th, 2007, 12:19 PM

Mr. Craig Yanagi,

Thanks so much for your post! As an HD100 owner I have to say that JVC really hit the ball out of the park with this cameras concept. It's very encouraging to hear how much development and energy is being put forth on the ProHD line. Glad to see how much cool stuff your bringing to market for the "low budget indy filmmaker or corporate vid" folks. As one of the aforementioned "low budget filmmaker/corporate video" folks I say - Thanks!

Brian Duke · January 5th, 2007, 03:15 PM

My question is when will you come out with an adapter that can take 35mm lenses =) (obviously excluding the ones on the market now).

Martin Hawkes · January 14th, 2007, 11:44 AM

Hello all,

Has anybody had one in the field who would like to write up their experience with the HZ CA13U?

All the best,

Martin

Carl Hicks · January 15th, 2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Hawkes

Hello all,

Has anybody had one in the field who would like to write up their experience with the HZ CA13U?

All the best,

Martin

Hi Martin,

The unit has not shipped yet.

Regards,

January 4th, 2007, 11:42 PM	#53
Craig Yanagi JVC America Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wayne, New Jersey Posts: 198	GY-HD200 and HZ-CA13 If the history of the ProHD product line is traced, there is actually no sign of a film lens adapter or image inversion in the description of the GY-HD100 and its accessories. This is because these concepts were never planned in the beginning, and had not been put on the drawing board until a little over a year ago. When the concept was eventually green-lighted, the combination of a GY-HD200 camcorder and HZ-CA13 16mm film lens adapter was born. The final judgement of introducing the GY-HD200 and the HZ-CA13 was that the two were to be used in combination, and it is the combination of the two that provides proper image recording. This is the concept system that was introduced at NAB 2006. The image inversion capability wasn't anything new to the industry - a Digital Betacam camcorder that had image inversion existed almost a decade ago, but the concept of making a film on a camcorder was ill-accepted despite the efforts of the product designers, and so the feature went away. Angenieux has a HZ-CA13 like-product for adaptation of 35mm and 16mm film lenses to 2/3" mount, which was most probably designed for the DigiBeta with the image inversion capability, but its cost was around $30k. Other lens manufacturers had considered creating film lens adapters for current cameras available in the marketplace, but as exemplified in the Angenieux product, the implementation of the technology is an expensive and complicated proposition. The Pro35 and Mini35 lens adapters are alternatives to an all-optical solution that also brings down the cost of the adapter. The M2 brings the cost down even further by using the camera lens as the image relay and not inverting the image - image inversion is accomplished through the use of software in post, as we know well through the works of Taylor Wigton. JVC found the potential for use of 16mm film lenses from two sources: filmmakers that own 16mm or prefer these lenses and wanted to somehow utilize them with the current cameras, and the need for high grade glass in order for smaller CCD's to aquire good images. So, since there is an abundance of 16mm film lenses in the world, why not utilize them? And wouldn't it be ideal to use it on a platform that's HD and native progressive 24p, on a standard that has the potential of editing as simply as DV? Wasn't this what the independents are asking for? The deduction was quite easy, but the technology necessary to make the film lens adapter that would be both functinally viable and affordable was a challenge for any manufacturer. Fortunately, JVC also has years of experience in optics design and research, and because of this technological resource, the creation of the HZ-CA13 was possible. However, since this was a major undertaking of an all-optics configuration design which started from a blank canvas, multiple iterations had to be made to obtain the best possible product. The current version has been optimized three times in the past two months, working with filmmakers in making sure that this product is viable. Upon completion, which is imminent, the HZ-CA13 will be a true production tool for the independent digital filmmaker, enabling them to utilize the most vital part of the camera, the glass. The combination of the HZ-CA13 with either the GY-HD200 or GY-HD250 and a 16mm film lens is a production system that was years in the making, in the minds (and dare I say hearts) of many filmmakers looking for such a solution. With a camcorder offering thats HD and SD switchable, native 24p, an affordable working platform with equally affordable yet robust NLE choices, and now with an even wider choice of glass options, one that's not available within a range of tens of thousands of dollars, it's truly a great time to be an indie. Our deepest and humble gratitude to the supporters of ProHD, to whom we strive to bring out the potential of our products. __________________ Craig Yanagi - National Marketing Manager JVC Professional Video Division, JVCKENWOOD USA Corp.

January 5th, 2007, 05:58 AM	#54
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	Craig, I have to say everying you said makes sense to me, people tend to take how complicated the science is when dealing with optics for granted. I started in video production in 98 and the leaps and bounds in technology since then is truely incredible and as you say it is only going to evolve. You guys could just as easily forget about helping the little guys who want to make films and aim your product at the $20,000 dollar and upwards market and I for one appreciate it. A couple of things i would like to ask, do you have a counterpart here in Europe? (obviously you do ). Why is he not a member of DVinfo? and why is it that America seems to get all the promotions and free kit with their cameras?. Our cameras cost more over here and we get less with them, I havn't read this whole thread but i'de bet my lunch money that the HZ-CA13 isn't available to Europe. I hate to sound like i'm complaining but more often than not i have read a thread that states ONLY FOR US at the top, Carl talks about the Pro HD Family so i guess that would make America the favourate Son and Europe the Black Sheep. As I said I'm sorry to complain but you are an important man at JVC and I thought you could shed some light. Andy. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

January 5th, 2007, 03:15 PM	#58
Brian Duke Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hollywood, California Posts: 899	My question is when will you come out with an adapter that can take 35mm lenses =) (obviously excluding the ones on the market now). __________________ Visit me and my work at www.artofduke.com

January 14th, 2007, 11:44 AM	#59
Martin Hawkes New Boot Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 8	Reviews? Hello all, Has anybody had one in the field who would like to write up their experience with the HZ CA13U? All the best, Martin __________________ Martin Hawkes cinematographer Saft Film

December 14th, 2006, 12:07 AM	#47
Matt Setnes Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 114	I understand this, but a highgrade relay lens and just for 16mm lenses. It just seems to be to high in competition with 35 adapters out there. I don't know, I had my hopes up, with the price, I'm only leaning towards Zacuto's 35 adapter now.

December 14th, 2006, 02:58 AM	#48
Burk Webb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 249	If anybody has their hands on this puppy I would love to see some test shots. More importantly, where can I rent this thing?

January 5th, 2007, 12:19 PM	#57
Burk Webb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 249	Mr. Craig Yanagi, Thanks so much for your post! As an HD100 owner I have to say that JVC really hit the ball out of the park with this cameras concept. It's very encouraging to hear how much development and energy is being put forth on the ProHD line. Glad to see how much cool stuff your bringing to market for the "low budget indy filmmaker or corporate vid" folks. As one of the aforementioned "low budget filmmaker/corporate video" folks I say - Thanks!