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Old November 17th, 2006, 02:26 AM   #1
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How does the "super encoder" work with your NLE ?

Because i'm waiting to buy the HD200, i'm wondering if the super encoder will take the same time to be embedded in all the nle than the "normal" encoder of the HD-100.

Or perhaps i'm wrong, and it yet works ? For Final Cut also ? (perhaps this last question is a joke...)
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Old November 17th, 2006, 05:13 AM   #2
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I've seen that the intermediate codecs don't support it for now. I'm fearing it'll be about the same time.
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Old November 17th, 2006, 05:26 AM   #3
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Well, Avid (not Liquid) still doesn't support HDV1 24 or 25 fps so I wouldn't hold my breath for newer flavours!
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Old November 17th, 2006, 11:32 AM   #4
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Folks, if you are capturing via firewire, it will still be 720p at 8bit 4:2:0 color space. Just really good looking 8bit:4:2:0 video. If you existing setup works, it should work just fine with the new cameras. SDI out, I don't know about.
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Old November 17th, 2006, 12:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carney
Folks, if you are capturing via firewire, it will still be 720p at 8bit 4:2:0 color space. Just really good looking 8bit:4:2:0 video. If you existing setup works, it should work just fine with the new cameras. SDI out, I don't know about.
I'm not so sure about that answer (although I hope it's true). I know that Xpress or MCA do not support it and AFAIK the only NLE's that support it right out of the gate are Liquid and FCP (over 1394).

Maybe the Edius/Vegas/PPro groups can assist with information on the subject but I know for sure the Liquid environment supports ProHD 50&60fps via 1394 I/O and import of the raw stuff (m2t) from the Firestore.
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Old November 17th, 2006, 02:32 PM   #6
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I qualified it with 'if your existing system supports it" I was meaning if you can capture and edit from the HD100, then you should (via firewire) do the same with the 200/250. If I'm mistaken, someone please jump in.
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Old November 17th, 2006, 03:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carney
I qualified it with 'if your existing system supports it" I was meaning if you can capture and edit from the HD100, then you should (via firewire) do the same with the 200/250. If I'm mistaken, someone please jump in.
The SuperEncoder simply improves quality. What may not be supported by NLEs is the 12-frame GOP with p50 and p60.
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Old November 17th, 2006, 03:26 PM   #8
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For a redundant clarification:

The "Super-Encoder" uses an improved method to create the same m2t files that the HD-100 with it's humble "Clark Kent" encoder created. The method to create the files is different but with the same resulting file type. Whatever frame rate your NLE can take now from the HD-100 will be exactly the same with the HD-200 or 250.

Accepting the new frame rates will be up to the makers of your NLE program or the hard disc recorder manufacturer.
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Old November 18th, 2006, 04:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
The SuperEncoder simply improves quality. What may not be supported by NLEs is the 12-frame GOP with p50 and p60.
Thanks, I didn't think about that, I guess that could be a problem if 12 GOP is used for everything, not just 60p.
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Old November 19th, 2006, 12:02 AM   #10
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FCP does not support HDV 50p or HDV 60p from the HD250. We tried it at the Worship Facilities Expo last week and even though it controlled the deck via firewire...FCP didn't capture anything. You can capture through HD-SDI with a decklink or kona card...

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Old November 19th, 2006, 07:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Van Slyke
FCP does not support HDV 50p or HDV 60p from the HD250. We tried it at the Worship Facilities Expo last week and even though it controlled the deck via firewire...FCP didn't capture anything. You can capture through HD-SDI with a decklink or kona card...

Donald :)
That makes me wrong with my comment above.

I guess the only NLE that supports the HD-250 right out of the gate is Liquid (that I know for sure).

Anyone else tried with another NLE?
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Old November 19th, 2006, 01:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
I guess the only NLE that supports the HD-250 right out of the gate is Liquid (that I know for sure).
Stephen,

Do you know what Avid Liquid officially supports with the JVC cameras?

At DV Expo Friday I asked an Avid rep when the Avid line would support JVCs 24p. I was told that they had no idea, that the codec was a big was very difficult to write software for and, in addition, JVC had changed it from its original specs causing even more problems for the software.

Then I said, so at the moment Liquid is your only product that supports JVC 24p, and the rep nearly jumped on me saying, no, no, no, officially Liquid doesn't have support for 24p or the JVC camera. I mentioned that Liquid does work and he said again, very strongly, that there is no support for the JVC camera in Liquid officially.

After that I asked Anthony Martorina who was demonstrating Liquid. I asked him about 24p support, mentioning that the other guy said that Liquid didn't support it. Anthony said that whatever the other guy said was right.

I mentioned to Anthony that Liquid was bundled with the JVC camera in Europe, and he said he didn't know anything about it. I asked Anthony if there were presets for 24p in Liquid, and he said he didn't know. Then I asked him to look, and he did, and there was a 24p 23.94 preset for the timeline... which I believe is the one you say to use for JVC footage with Liquid.

My question to you is, Stephen, since you have mentioned you have worked with Liquid a long time, do you know what if any of the JVC progressive formats does Liquid _officially_ support?

It is very confusing as to why Avid claims Liquid does not support 24p when it obviously does as shown in your video tutorials. It is even more confusing why Anthony Martorina isn't aware that Liquid will work with the JVC 24p and there are even presets in the software?

Is the support for the JVC codecs somehow incomplete at this point so Avid doesn't want to officially support them? Or is it possible that the support within Liquid for 24p and the JVC camera will be removed or changed with the next service update, which apparently is coming out sometime next year? (From what I have read, features have been removed from Liquid with new updates, such as support for VOB editing.)

Stephen, if you have any info on the Liquid's support for 24 and JVC, it would be helpful. I have narrowed down my choices to Edius NX and Liquid Pro. However, Edius does officially support JVC and 24p but Avid says Liquid doesn't, at least so officially, so it seems it might be unwise to choose Liquid.

To complicate things, I am very possibly going to buy one of the new Sony V1U (shooting 24p 1080) and would want to use this footage together with 24p from the JVC camera. Edius works with the Sony footage, but is there anyway to know if Liquid will? That combined with the fact that 24p JVC is unofficial makes it difficult.
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Old November 19th, 2006, 06:08 PM   #13
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If you use Aspect/Prospect/ConnectHD with PremPro or Vegas all of the new modes have been supported even before the cams shipped.
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Old November 20th, 2006, 12:39 AM   #14
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Thanks for all those answers (haven't access to internet last days).

So if i understand, until now there is no way to edit from an HD250 with FCP directly. Does the Dvhs-Mpegstreamclip workflow works ?
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Old November 20th, 2006, 11:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Hodson
If you use Aspect/Prospect/ConnectHD with PremPro or Vegas all of the new modes have been supported even before the cams shipped.
Cineform seems to always be ahead of the curve. I have ConnectHD and Vegas.
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