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Old January 31st, 2007, 12:30 AM   #1
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Camera to complement HD110

First of all, I am not sure I am posting this in the right forum, so I will not be at all offended if it gets moved.

I was wondering if anyone has a recomendation for a innexpensive HDV camera that would complement the HD110. On occasion I do a wedding video and thought that it would be nice to offer clients the option of having their wedding done entirely in HD. I already own the JVC HD110, and can not afford to purchase another one right now. Instead I was thinking of getting a smaller camera to run around with and get close ups at the wedding, but the footage from the two cameras would end up being cut together. My budget for this second camera is only around $2000. I could possibly manage a little bit more, but not much.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 12:58 AM   #2
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muster up a few more bucks and buy a used one, or a 100 at least. That will be the easiest way. You'll probably have to end up doing a fair amount of color correction if you go with something else. I don't know of any other cameras that offer a native resolution of 1280 x 720 that are cheaper....If it looked as good as the JVC's do for $2000, I would have bought 15 of those rather than 6 JVC's. If you don't buy used, I would suggest renting one until you can come up with the extra money....that or get a new credit card.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:23 AM   #3
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There was another thread that asked about a palmcorder to complement the JVC HD100. There wasn't an answer.

I think the perfect camera might not be available yet, but I think there is a market for it.

For example, I have a PD150 and often I mixed footage with a one-chip sony camera. With a slight correction in exposure, the color matches perfectly.

I use the camera to mount above an activity, mount on the front of a stage, hang from a pole, shoot from backstage into the lights, grab quick shots in cramped places. The main footage is shot with the PD150 and the little camera gets the extra stuff as I describe.

The JVC HD110/200/250 are great and work on the shoulder, on the tripod, where there is space to put it, etc.

However, it would be nice to have a camera to complement it that would have some or all of these features:
1. Shoot progressive
2. Be able to be setup for color as the HD110
3. Be small enough to easily mount on a clamp, to run about in a crowd and get quick closeups and candid moments, etc.
4. Have image stabilization.
5. Have autofocus.

Of course if you are doing multi-camera shoots, identical big cameras are desired.

However, for grabbing those extra shots (with instant setup, off the hip, so to speak) and for a second camera that is mounted in an out-of-the-way place, a $2000 3-chip camera with the above features would be great.

For some people, such a camera would be all they wanted, but for others who owned the professional camera, such a camera would give extra creative options and would fill a needed niche.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:46 AM   #4
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If you shoot 30p, you might have some use of a JVC HD1/HD10. But if it is critical to have really good quality I'd have to agree with Kit...
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Old January 31st, 2007, 08:38 AM   #5
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What about a Canon XH A1?
Cheap...customizable to match the hd100...1080p...
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio Barbosa
What about a Canon XH A1?
Cheap...customizable to match the hd100...1080p...
The two cameras that have most intrigued me are the XH A1 (or the G1, which is more expensive) and the Sony V1 (which is also more expensive).

I think both cameras could work to add shots to an HD110 piece.

I think new and improved small cameras are going to have an increasing importance in professional situations for certain cirumstances.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio Barbosa
What about a Canon XH A1?
Cheap...customizable to match the hd100...1080p...
I don't believe that would be a good match. The JVC Cameras are a native 720p (1280 x 720), where as the Canon will output 1080i (1440 x 1080 uprezed)- it may be difficult for some people, depending on what NLE they are using to edit, to match different HD resolutions. I'm sure it's a nice camera, but by the time one of those is purchased, he could probably just buy a used HD100 for around the same price and not worry about having to mix content.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit Hannah
I'm sure it's a nice camera, but by the time one of those is purchased, he could probably just buy a used HD100 for around the same price and not worry about having to mix content.
The way I see this question is based on need.

If you need a camera to exactly match an HD110 and will be mixing it equally in a multi-camera setup, or you are using two operators shooting different, but equally important footage, then a used HD100 makes the most sense.

On the other hand, if the second camera is to be used by the single operator who is also using the HD110, a second HD100 does not make sense.

Similarly, if you need a camera that can get shots that are impossible with the HD110, because of size of the 110, the need to manually focus, the lack of time to set it up, the close quarters, need of a bit of stabilization (holding the camera high over the head in a crowd that is moving), the need to be less conspicuous, the need to mount the camera in an alcove and capture people standing and waiting, talking, or to mount a camera backstage on a clamp and shoot into the lights onstage for some cutaways while editing, etc., a second HD100 doesn't make sense.

Different situations have different needs, and many times multiple HD100/110/200/250s are the answer. But I also think there is a place and a market for a high quality small camera that is less expensive but gives great pictures that will match with the other cameras when used the right way.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
But I also think there is a place and a market for a high quality small camera that is less expensive but gives great pictures that will match with the other cameras when used the right way.
I totally agree, but it would be best if the camera at least had an option for having the same resoultion as the 110, or close to. I know I wouldn't want to be mixing and matching cameras unless I knew that I could get similar looks & Resolutions out of them. We have tried to match cameras in post before, even the same camera being off by a bit.... It's not always that easy. And going from 2 different cameras, it will be even more dificult, espcially a JVC and a sony or canon - not only do you have different resolutions, but the colors will be different and all that will have to be fixed or might look funny, thus possibly doubling the time of rendering.

Lets put it this way. If I were useing a Canon H1, I would be all aver the A1 or G1 because they will probably have a similar picture in a smaller package. They may even use the same chips. I would probably see how an HD1 from JVC matches up if you want portability. It can be set to 1280 x 720, but I heard that it may have some issues because of the way it records.

Bottom line is, I would try to find something as close as possible to the camera I had so it doesn't have a different look.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 02:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Kit Hannah
Bottom line is, I would try to find something as close as possible to the camera I had so it doesn't have a different look.
I agree. I think the small camera that matches the JVC HD series isn't here yet. But I think there is a market.

I saw the V1 at a show, and my principal interes was the 24p and other progressive video in the small format (same size as the PD150). I am going to Europe to do interviews later in the year, and I had come to the conclusion that travelling light with the JVC camera was too much. But I agree, mixing the Sony with the JVC -- at least the same type of footage, as opposed to a few specialty shots -- would be a real bother.

I think this camera is also good for camera going on the internet and DVD only, when the specialty features on these cameras that are not on the pro cameras are helpful for what is being shot.

I spent a year in Russia taking 35mm still slides. The experience taught me that a small camera (if it is going to do the job required) is MUCH desired over a larger format camera.

I think the day will come when there are camera sets. The main camera, a portable and small version, and a crash camera -- all designed to work toghether and provide matching footage (more or less, figured in the long run). The cost of buying the specialty camera is less than a day in the editing room trying to match footage.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 03:32 PM   #11
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I guess it sounds like I will have to wait a bit before I can offer my wedding clients full HD versions of their weddings.

However, the problem still remains that I need a second camera for the weddings.... even if it is SD. Is there possibly a camera in the $2000 range that will come close to matching the 4:3 SD video from the HD110?

I was thinking possibly a GL2, VX2100, or a used Sony DSR200. Any thoughts?
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Old January 31st, 2007, 03:36 PM   #12
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It will be interesting to see what JVC does as an "answer" to the other large / small HDV cameras out there. The phone is ringing - Canon and Sony are calling letting JVC know that they have samller solutions to each of their bigger cameras. It's time for JVC to do something about this, offer something similar to the HD110 in a smaller package. Maybe something in the $2000 range with a fixed lens but uses the same chips as the 110 so that it copliments the 100/110 well as far as look, but maybe scaled back a bit. If you drop the "heafty" lens (not by ENG standards, but by HDV class standards) and replace it with a fixed lens, maybe only have 1 audio input, a fixed viewfinder, and a built in mic, but still records to the .m2t format, they should have no problem getting a better prosumer solution. If picture quality was close to to the 110 for that price, I'm sure they would have a huge money making camera on their hands.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 03:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Grunseth
However, the problem still remains that I need a second camera for the weddings.... even if it is SD. Is there possibly a camera in the $2000 range that will come close to matching the 4:3 SD video from the HD110?

I was thinking possibly a GL2, VX2100, or a used Sony DSR200. Any thoughts?
I think you would be better off finding a SD solution for the time being anyways, because SD is pretty much all the same resolution - 720-480. The GL2, although you could make work fine, will probably not look as good, but some good post work can probably give you pretty acceptable results, enough so the average person is not going to notice. Sony offers some nice SD cameras, and with many people making the switch to HDV, there are probably some pretty good deals to be had.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 06:21 PM   #14
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Unfortuantely JVCs first consumer HD Everio doesn't look like it will do 720p. It is quite ironic. I get the feeling that 720p is a dying spec even if it is better or not. It is unlikely to ever appear in a consumer cam again

Can you imagine trying to explain to a consumer they can't pan, 720 is better than 1080 etc

Your only hope really relies on JVC releaseing somethink at NAB. If you don't see anything there I wouldn't be holding my breath.

I have wanted to go 720p over 1080i for some time but with that sheer lack of 720p cameras to match it in different circumstances it feels like I would be backing myself into a corner. Perhaps better to wait for a camera like the HD100 with a 1440x1080 16:9 block. Other than price I guess that's XDCAM HD...
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Old February 9th, 2007, 07:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Barwood
I get the feeling that 720p is a dying spec even if it is better or not. It is unlikely to ever appear in a consumer cam again
720/60p will stick around as long as the major TV networks support it.
Progressive will always look better than interlaced.

1080i cameras are more forgiving for people who don't know how to shoot.
Consumers fill this market quite well because they can't hold a camera still.
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