HDV to SD conversion at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > JVC ProHD & MPEG2 Camera Systems > JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems

JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems
GY-HD 100 & 200 series ProHD HDV camcorders & decks.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 6th, 2007, 03:15 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 250
HDV to SD conversion

Hi,
I am now shooting 720/25p HDV on my JVC HD111 cam and have been offered suggestions on how to downconvert to SD in FCP5. As I understand, all that is required is to make a new SD timeline and drag the HDV footage into it. It seems to work ok. Do I have to change fields or anything else to give a better result or is this all that is needed. Can anyone help with a better workflow? It seems so simple if this is all I need to do. Would love your thoughts.
My main export will be "print to Video" back to tape for broadcast in SD.
From what I understand, the HDV footage looks better downconverted than originally shot in SD. Is this true?
__________________
Dennis Robinson
G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111
Dennis Robinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 03:31 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 969
It really is that simple and yes it will look better because it will retain more detail. It also gives you the option of faking tracking shots or dolly moves without any loss in quality.
Liam Hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 03:45 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
It really is that simple and yes it will look better because it will retain more detail. It also gives you the option of faking tracking shots or dolly moves without any loss in quality.
Thanks Liam. Great to hear from you. I have been having so much trouble shooting hDV720/25p due to the judder. Very helpful people on this site steered me in the direction of how to shoot to avoid it and now, I am hooked on shooting progressive. It blows me away. Most of my work is TV commercials but with a bit more practice, I will be able to shoot HDV all the time.
What do you mean by faking tracking shots etc? I find I have to follow the subject to avoid the judder and have yet to use my dolly on it.
__________________
Dennis Robinson
G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111
Dennis Robinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 04:18 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 969
By faking tracking/dolly moves I mean taking advantage of the fact that the HD frame resolution is larger than SD. It's just a case of creating a move by adjusting the settings on the motion tab in FCP. It works particularly well for time-lapse. I'll try and post a few examples later.
Cheers,
Liam.
Liam Hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 01:22 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
By faking tracking/dolly moves I mean taking advantage of the fact that the HD frame resolution is larger than SD. It's just a case of creating a move by adjusting the settings on the motion tab in FCP. It works particularly well for time-lapse. I'll try and post a few examples later.
Cheers,
Liam.

Do you mean zooming in on the frame?
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 01:24 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson View Post
Hi,
I am now shooting 720/25p HDV on my JVC HD111 cam and have been offered suggestions on how to downconvert to SD in FCP5. As I understand, all that is required is to make a new SD timeline and drag the HDV footage into it. It seems to work ok. Do I have to change fields or anything else to give a better result or is this all that is needed. Can anyone help with a better workflow? It seems so simple if this is all I need to do. Would love your thoughts.
My main export will be "print to Video" back to tape for broadcast in SD.
From what I understand, the HDV footage looks better downconverted than originally shot in SD. Is this true?
I've always heard it's best to do your downconvert as late in the process as possible. The last step before burn to dvd. Is this no longer conventional wisdom?
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 03:57 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Luce View Post
I've always heard it's best to do your downconvert as late in the process as possible. The last step before burn to dvd. Is this no longer conventional wisdom?
Hi Bruce, You may be right there. I have never finished a project in HDV so have never tried it. My main purpose is to Print to video for broadcast.
What workflow would you suggest for creating a Quicktime file and DVD?
__________________
Dennis Robinson
G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111
Dennis Robinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 04:57 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 969
Some fake camera moves;

http://www.liamhall.net/LonBroll23.mov

All the moves are done in post as the camera is always locked off. All quite simple and I'm sure lots of people are doing it but a good trick to have up your sleeve especially if you're out on your own.
Liam Hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 05:05 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
Some fake camera moves;

http://www.liamhall.net/LonBroll23.mov

All the moves are done in post as the camera is always locked off. All quite simple and I'm sure lots of people are doing it but a good trick to have up your sleeve especially if you're out on your own.
Thank you Liam,
I am going to have a go at those. You have been a huge help to me.Once again, Thanks! This movement has been achieved in the SD timeline, or HDV?
What is your workflow.
__________________
Dennis Robinson
G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111
Dennis Robinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 05:31 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 969
Dennis, the shots in that movie are the simplest form of the trick. More realistic tilts, pans and even handheld wobbles can easily be achieved.

My quick and dirty FCP workflow;

Shoot HDV
Edit in the HD codec of your choice.
Drop the HD edit into an SD timeline.
Double click individual shots on the SD timeline to open in viewer.
Apply any filters/colour correction etc.
Click the motion tab on the viewer, set a key frame for all the settings you want to affect at the first and last frames of the shot and move the image
around to your hearts content.

You'll laugh at how simple this is once you've given it a go.

Cheers,

Liam.
Liam Hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 250
Hi Liam,
I have already given it a go in a TV commercial I finished off yesterday. Looks great. Thanks so much.
__________________
Dennis Robinson
G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111
Dennis Robinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2007, 07:08 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson View Post
Hi Bruce, You may be right there. I have never finished a project in HDV so have never tried it. My main purpose is to Print to video for broadcast.
What workflow would you suggest for creating a Quicktime file and DVD?
Hi Dennis (and also in reply to Brian's earlier question about when to downconvert).

There is a "classic" post by Nate Weaver called "On the subject of HD downconversion" where he discusses: 1-Downconverting in an FCP timeline, 2-Downconverting via Export, and 3-Downconverting via Compressor.

He found "Downconverting via Compressor" to give the best results and I have to agree (from my own experiences).

Several months ago, I had to add new footage to an old corporate job (everything shot in 720p25). The old job had taken 720p25 footage and edited it in an SD timeline. The footage looked very nice on the final DVD (of the original job). When I added the new footage, I decided to do it in a 720p25 timeline (which also meant extra editing work on the original footage) and then directly export from the timeline into compressor to make the .m2v and .ac3 files for the DVD (SD PAL). The difference was stunning. Literally stunning. No way would I ever downconvert in the timeline again (when going out to SD DVD).

My only theory to explain it is to use the analogy of how a 35mm feature film (with well over a thousand lines of resolution) seems to keep a lot of its "look" even when squeezed down into 576 lines. So you'll get a better visual result asking Compressor to squeeze 720 lines into 576 lines as opposed to only giving it 576 lines to work with in the first place (when you've already downconverted in the timeline).

I've made a number of posts in the Mac (FCP) forum giving my workflow from 720p25 timeline to Compressor to DVD Studio Pro (they should be easy to find with the search function).

And Nate's original post/thread can be found here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=63494
David Knaggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2007, 08:46 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 250
Thanks David,
This has been so helpful. I have had a tough time learning how to use this camera. I am now starting to love the progressive look and after spending a lot of time learning shooting techiques, am game enough to shoot all my projects on HDV. Its a huge learning curve and I have been using a Canon XL1s for 4 years shooting TV commercials so I am experienced to some extent.
__________________
Dennis Robinson
G5, , 30 inch display, FCP6 Studio 2, JVC-GYHD111
Dennis Robinson is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > JVC ProHD & MPEG2 Camera Systems > JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:45 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network