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Old March 12th, 2007, 07:57 AM   #1
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Scene file editor for HD100/200?

I think a scene file editor for the JVC HD100/200 series cameras would be a good idea, both mac and pc versions, that lets you create different scene files and save them to SD cards, ready for shooting. It would certainly beat using the menu system to create scene files.

There are people working on this for the HVX200, and I think its a great idea.

Anybody have the know-how to write such an app?

While I'm asking, has anybody created the Barry Green book/DVD for the HD100? Tim, what about you?


Andrew
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Old March 12th, 2007, 10:51 AM   #2
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We've mentioned and requested a scene file editor before. I doubt JVC will develop it on their own. It will take a third party (like Blue Barn's work on the XL2) to program one for Mac or PC.
I have some great ideas for the design, but I don't have the programming skills (or time) to create it.

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Originally Posted by Drew Curran View Post
While I'm asking, has anybody created the Barry Green book/DVD for the HD100? Tim, what about you?
I'm working on a DVD now that will cover the whole ProHD line, including the DR-HD100 & the HZ-CA13U. I was working on an in-depth tutorial style book, but I've realized through my participation on the forums that many people simply can't learn quickly or effectively from the written word. The DVD format allows you watch the whole program in a couple of hours, or jump straight to an area of interest for your specific model. I will also likely add either subtitles or overdubbing for French & Spanish and possibly Portuguese, Cantonese, Japanese & German. It all depends on how much time & money I can afford to invest in translations.

This DVD will be a supplemental 'module' to to a larger educational DVD of Digital Cinematography techniques, tips & tricks. I plan to produce more modules in the future, covering other cameras, NLEs, and possibly even 3D Stereoscopy (a hobby of mine.)

Look for the official announcement at NAB.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 11:08 AM   #3
 
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Steve Mullen has a rather nice intro booklet to the original HD100
http://www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/
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Old March 12th, 2007, 11:28 AM   #4
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I should also mention:

Elite video also has a DVD that covers the HD100.
http://www.elitevideo.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=604

And a HD100 podcast.
feed://rss.mac.com/schwetjelars/iWeb...odcast/rss.xml
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Old March 12th, 2007, 11:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
I'm working on a DVD now that will cover the whole ProHD line, including the DR-HD100 & the HZ-CA13U.
Look for the official announcement at NAB.
Tim

thanks for this info on the DVD. I'll look forward to it. Theres only so much can be learned from the manual supplied with the camera. So much more can be learned from an expert like yourself who has obviously worked with the camera in depth.

I'll have a look at the other suggestions as well.

thanks

Andrew
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Old March 12th, 2007, 04:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
I should also mention:

Elite video also has a DVD that covers the HD100.
http://www.elitevideo.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=604

And a HD100 podcast.
feed://rss.mac.com/schwetjelars/iWeb...odcast/rss.xml
I just watched these. Mmm...

I can see a gap in the market. Looking forward to your DVD Tim.

Good luck,

Liam.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 05:18 PM   #7
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Does the cam have the capability to load from SD already? Is all that's needed some software on the computer to manage the scene files (i.e. a nice user interface for editing them) and handle a write to SD?
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Old March 12th, 2007, 05:26 PM   #8
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Does the cam have the capability to load from SD already? Is all that's needed some software on the computer to manage the scene files (i.e. a nice user interface for editing them) and handle a write to SD?
Hi Jad,
Yes, the HD100 can load from SD files and that is pretty much all the app would have to do. It would be really cool if there was GUI with which you could previsualize, or at least see the effect of changing settings. Can you an write software?

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Old March 12th, 2007, 05:34 PM   #9
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Yes, I am a software engineer and web programmer during my 9-5, with a good amount of experience in gui and applications design. If you or anyone would like to post requested features, I could get a spec together and hammer it out sooner than later.

I'm not so sure about previsualization as that would require some sort of communication with the camera or emulation of its compression methods, but there could at least be some healthy descriptions for each adjustment parameter and some sort of website integration/sharing feature.

FYI, I only program for Windows and Linux.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 06:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jad Meouchy View Post
Yes, I am a software engineer and web programmer during my 9-5, with a good amount of experience in gui and applications design. If you or anyone would like to post requested features, I could get a spec together and hammer it out sooner than later.

I'm not so sure about previsualization as that would require some sort of communication with the camera or emulation of its compression methods, but there could at least be some healthy descriptions for each adjustment parameter and some sort of website integration/sharing feature.

FYI, I only program for Windows and Linux.
Jad,
Fab. Looks like you've got the job then.
In terms of previsualization, anything that helps people understand what the major controls actually do would be a help. I think a lot of people have a problem understanding gamma, knee, black level etc. I'm not talking Kodak Look Manager here, just something akin to the way Magic Bullit presents its different looks in After Effects.

How do you see the web integration working?

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Old March 12th, 2007, 06:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jad Meouchy View Post
Yes, I am a software engineer and web programmer during my 9-5, with a good amount of experience in gui and applications design. If you or anyone would like to post requested features, I could get a spec together and hammer it out sooner than later.

I'm not so sure about previsualization as that would require some sort of communication with the camera or emulation of its compression methods, but there could at least be some healthy descriptions for each adjustment parameter and some sort of website integration/sharing feature.

FYI, I only program for Windows and Linux.
I have often thought of creating an interactive flash application from the waveform data I've collected. It would be easy to set the parameters of each control based on the collected data. However, it wouldn't be much use as anything other than a teaching tool.

Previsualization based on a sample frame is my ideal concept of a scene file app, but there is no SDK available for the JVC cameras, so I'm not sure how you would go about writing out a SCN format file. Reverse engineer a SCN file?

You should check out how Nikon lets you create custom curves in their Nikon Capture app.
Previsualization is the key to a usable app, since I doubt it is possible to live control the parameters of any menu items via firewire. I could be wrong, but I'm sure they would have added the abilities if it existed (like with Canon.)
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Old March 13th, 2007, 01:23 AM   #12
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I could probably get a visualization of a gamma/color curve, but actually applying that curve to a sample frame may be a bit involved. I'm not sure I could accurately reproduce what the camera does without having intimate knowledge of the equations used by their ICs. Assuming that hard part was done, it would be fairly simple to apply the frame to a live firewire feed rather than just a simple frame.

Yes, I would reverse engineer the SCN file, or maybe see if someone at JVC is willing to open it up. I'd believe there is no SDK because of low demand, not because of secrecy.

Web integration would be in the form of an online repository that the application could pull from and submit to, with ratings and author-provided discussions available inside the app, or from a web page. Nothing fancy, but enough to be useful. I hope to alleviate the difficulty of sharing and reviewing files through a forum by making the community content available in the application. I have experience with web services, so this file sharing model is familiar.

I'll check out Magic Bullet, Kodak Look Manager, and that Nikon app to get some ideas.

Thanks
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Old March 13th, 2007, 01:36 AM   #13
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I offer the data collected in this quicktime file. Be patient, it takes a few minutes to buffer before playing.

Even if you could create an interactive app that simply displayed the effects of the controls on the gamma curve as you moved the sliders, it would be a helpful educational tool.
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Old March 14th, 2007, 06:07 PM   #14
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Very cool! (although as a mac user, I guess I'll be looking at emulation mode unless java, x-windows or something else more universal can be used)
This is probably elementary, but I was think that frame grabs of a scene could be used to illustrate changes. Of course showing every combination would be way too much - but you could show every OTHER parameter at default, and just show the effects on the scene of the edited paramter at each of it's settings... The charts that Tim produced could also be used the same way.
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Old March 14th, 2007, 06:34 PM   #15
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Excellent data! I don't want to rule out the possiblity of frame previewing, but that is pretty tricky and I don't want to promise it unless I can deliver it. I'll see if I can find some math equations to apply such a curve to a given image and see if it's feasible.

At the very least, I could have examples in a small window to the side comparing the pre-rendered sample base image to the pre-rendered sample adjusted image, where that image is loaded based on user-entered values. It would not be ideal, but still useful.

How easy is it for Mac users to run Windows applications? If it's easy enough, I will not look into cross-platform possibilities and instead redirect that effort to the mathematics.

Thanks for all the feedback; I think I am getting close to the info I need for a preliminary spec.
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