Will shoot a "thriller" with HD111 and need quick help... at DVinfo.net

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Old March 12th, 2007, 06:37 PM   #1
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Will shoot a "thriller" with HD111 and need quick help...

First of all sorry for my English. This is my first post on these forums. This site is really great for indie filmmakers who wants to learn more with his/her equipment.

I'm from Turkey / Istanbul. I'm going to a Cinema school which is one of the biggest film production company in Turkey: Plato.

But Interestingly, just a few people knows the benefits of the HD cameras. For example. In the school, we have 2 cameras: JVC HD111 and Sony PD150.

I'm going to shoot a short movie which is a thriller. I hardly persuade them to give me the HD111, they prefer shooting MiniDV with PD150 over HD111, and they say PD150's picture quality is better!

Anyway, I need to create good atmospher, good contrasts, nice cinematic colors (as any directors basic needs :)). I found these section with google search and I think you guys can help me. I downloaded all the finished works like "Twist of Fate". I like the contrast and the color settings in that short movie. I search about the settings a bit and found something. Found Tim Dashwood's, Paulo Ciccone's and Stephen Noe's settings.

I wonder:
- Is the look of Twist of Fate created with these settings? Any additional settings used?

- Can someone suggests me some settings?

- Because I'm a European (or if you don't accept us in EU, Asian :)) do I have to shoot 25p? I want the "filmlook" so I want to shoot 24p but can I convert it to 50i or PAL DVD format easily?

- I see FCP is the main application to edit. But it req. a Mac. We have Avid Xpress Pro 5.6 at the school. I can use premiere too. Which one is better or in other words most compatible with HD editing?

I'll shot with JVC HD111 with default lenses, will use lightning and boom.
Film locations: Exteriors in daytime (mostly early morning)
Interiors will be dark.
Atmosphere : Main character is a Photographer who is a killer. He take photos his victims secretly.

So I don't know if I do a correct thing with asking this question here. But it's kind of important to me. This will be my first short movie and I have to persuade them to use HD for short films instead of PD150 or even handycams.

For example I shoot a test movie with a Panasonic GS500 handycam. You can watch it on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl-wPow4GUo
It's turkish but I just shoot this to test the use of music and the basic cinematography. I don't like the finished work :).

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Ask for more info if you I write weak or something. Sorry for my English again if I made mistakes.

EDIT 2: What is "edge enhancement"?

Last edited by Erhan Gucel; March 12th, 2007 at 07:27 PM.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 10:29 PM   #2
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Welcome aboard Erhan Gucel.

You can try any of the settings easily. You have the luxury of the SD card in the ProHD cameras. This allow you to load 4 scene files for quick call up.

In your NLE scenario (AVX or PPro), you'd be better off using PPro with cineform. It's a crying shame what AVX users have gone through for any real HDV 24p support.

PD150 better than ProHD? In film school? I can't imaging they'd choose an interlaced image over progressive in film school.

For exteriors, make sure your using extra ND filters in order to make sure your lens in it's sweet spot without too high a shutter speed. I created a bright outdoor scene file which is designed to be used with an addition 0.6ND as well as the onboard ND2. This setup is for broad daylight while avoiding white clip and keeping highlight detail.

For dark interiors you need a completely different setup. You'll need to try and avoid gain so the best way is with the menu gamma setting. You can adjust gamma to get more black detail without going into gain.

There are several threads discussing settings and we've tried to come up with a setting for most situations (between all of the jvc prohd community).

Are you aiming for film transfer or direct to DVD?
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Old March 13th, 2007, 03:00 AM   #3
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Thank you for your reply.

I'm aiming to convert into DVD, and want to release a 720p version over a website. I won't transfer it to the film. So I should shoot with 25p?

Quote:
PD150 better than ProHD? In film school? I can't imaging they'd choose an interlaced image over progressive in film school.
Yeah, I can't tell what I'm going through in this school :).

So these scene files changes the Advance Settings in the camera, aren't they? I manage to look these settings a bit but it's difficult to test which settings end up with correct picture for me because it's not mine.

I will look "Downloadable HD100 Scene Files + Recipes" Thread when I got back home. So I will return with more questions :).

Thank you for your reply again Stephen
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Old March 13th, 2007, 03:32 AM   #4
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I suggest shooting in 25p and staying there. Just transfer to SD DV 25p instead of DV 50i - you'll retain higher image quality/resolution. You can make a progressive DVD then if you want. Perhaps you can even shoot in DV 25p (widescreen) - in case the film school doesn't have any hd(v) post production facilities...
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Old March 13th, 2007, 10:20 AM   #5
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I have to capture the footage via Firewire (IEEE1394 port) cable. Camera supports it right? We use firewire with the Avid Xpress Pro. I capture the previous test shot footage with it but it's a Panasonic GS500 Handycam.

EDIT: Camera has the IEEE1394 port right?

Last edited by Erhan Gucel; March 13th, 2007 at 01:04 PM.
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Old March 13th, 2007, 02:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erhan Gucel View Post
I have to capture the footage via Firewire (IEEE1394 port) cable. Camera supports it right? We use firewire with the Avid Xpress Pro. I capture the previous test shot footage with it but it's a Panasonic GS500 Handycam.

EDIT: Camera has the IEEE1394 port right?
Sure does. It also has composite (three cables) out as well (which when shooting live gives you an uncompressed 4:2:2 signal).

I'd suggest having a good solid light kit, as these new HDV cameras need a wee more light than their DV cousins. Good luck my friend -
john
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Old March 13th, 2007, 04:37 PM   #7
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Next Question: Scene Files
Is there a screenshot or samples for each scene file to compare? Or do I have to install and see them to get the results on the camera's LCD? We don't have a monitor, only LCD.

Are all scene files compatible with HD111? Because many people seem to use them with HD100 or HD110. I don't want to break the camera :). And after trying all the settings is there a "Return to Defaults" option on the cam?

I read this on the other thread:
Quote:
"Cine Gamma and Tele Gamma: Cine Gamma was developed on the assumption that the final content is released on 35mm film. We developed a gamma curve for the video system to closely match that of 35mm film. In addition, with the cooperation of a famous Japanese cinematographer and Toei Chemical Co, Ltd., we established a Look-Up-Table (LUT) to return the captured video signal back to 35mm film via Arri Laser Recorder. As a result, we were able to realize the appearance of an image almost equal to 35mm film recording.

Tele Gamma was developed on the assumption that the final content is viewed on a television monitor, for example, a drama, or documentary. It creates the look of film on video."
I thought the Cine Gamma is for "filmlook" for the "video". I mean I want to release a 720p version on the net and I want it to look like film. Acording to here I'm wrong right? Should I use Tele Gamma?

Or are the other scene files take care about this subject?

EDIT2: And Should I change the black stretch or the knee settings AFTER I use a scene file? Or just using the scene file is enough?

EDIT: I hope I'm not bothering you all with my newbie questions.
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Old March 14th, 2007, 01:52 PM   #8
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Another question. I will shoot in 25p mode. So the shutter speed should be 1/25? or 1/50?
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Old March 14th, 2007, 02:53 PM   #9
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shutter speed

Hi Erhan,
Your shutter speed should be 1/50 th. Good luck.
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Old March 14th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #10
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Thank you Peter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erhan Gucel View Post
Next Question: Scene Files
Is there a screenshot or samples for each scene file to compare? Or do I have to install and see them to get the results on the camera's LCD? We don't have a monitor, only LCD.

Are all scene files compatible with HD111? Because many people seem to use them with HD100 or HD110. I don't want to break the camera :). And after trying all the settings is there a "Return to Defaults" option on the cam?

I read this on the other thread:


I thought the Cine Gamma is for "filmlook" for the "video". I mean I want to release a 720p version on the net and I want it to look like film. Acording to here I'm wrong right? Should I use Tele Gamma?

Or are the other scene files take care about this subject?

EDIT2: And Should I change the black stretch or the knee settings AFTER I use a scene file? Or just using the scene file is enough?

EDIT: I hope I'm not bothering you all with my newbie questions.
Any answer for this? anyone? :)
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Old March 14th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #11
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Well, I'm not the most qualified to answer, but I think I can get you started. There are scene files which are optimized as preperation for transfer to film (not your case). Others which are optimized for capturing the maximum image information, perhaps optimized FOR A GIVEN LIGHT SITUATION (which might be right if you have the time and equipment for post production color correction). Finally, there are scene files which give a particular "film look" direct to capture - maybe warm and fuzzy, or dark and contrasty. These might make sense for you - but be careful that they might need to be tailored somewhat to the conditions you are shooting in. What I mean is that daylight exteriors in bright sun probably should be setup differently than night interiors.
Well, no-one said it would be easy!
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Old March 15th, 2007, 01:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adair View Post
... Finally, there are scene files which give a particular "film look" direct to capture - maybe warm and fuzzy, or dark and contrasty. These might make sense for you - but be careful that they might need to be tailored somewhat to the conditions you are shooting in. What I mean is that daylight exteriors in bright sun probably should be setup differently than night interiors.
Well, no-one said it would be easy!
That is the one I need. I just want the film look, a stylish look. Like Seven's look, like Munich's look or Saving Private Ryan's look.

For example, In my short film there are 2 nightmare scenes and 1 flashback scene. I'm planning to use an effect for these particular scenes. Flashback scene is in exterior, I want to use bright images, whites like overexposed, more grainy image. Nightmare scene is more cold image, the colors should be (low?), not over saturated. And the other scenes are should be dark. This kind of environment that I need.

So which files should I use for this?
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Old March 15th, 2007, 08:49 AM   #13
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Erhan, The information is here in the forum - search, or look through the forum categories. Tim Dashwood has done several scene files emulating specific movies.
Start with the first post in the very top thread of the JVC GY-HD section!
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62835
I'd skim through all the posts in that section, looking for good references, and trying to understand HOW they work, since they aren't just dial-a-movie magic. Especially the stylistic effects you want, which will only yield the "look" with the appropriate lighting and techniques.
Munich has already been asked for and replied to in a seperate post:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=516824
Please respect the very talented and giving people on this site by searching the forum before asking questions.
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Old March 15th, 2007, 11:15 AM   #14
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Sean thank you for reply. I red those threads but I asked them here because I don't know the results of those scene files. I can't test it on the camera because I can only get it when I'm going to shoot my short film. So I'm trying to get info as soon as possible from here in this thread.

If there is a screenshot taken from a movie clip for each scene file I can compare easily.

Maybe there are some short movies using those scene files? I downloaded some clips over the "finished works" thread. But can't see any effects used.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 01:52 AM   #15
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with all due respect, my friend, all of your questions may be answered by a dilligent search of this forum , or perhaps your film school teacher. have a great day.
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