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Old March 24th, 2007, 03:43 PM   #1
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Recording Sound through Camera JVC110

Hey guys, I go to film school where I have access to Sound Devices 722 & 744 which are essentially top-level industry hardware for recording sound, however I plan on shooting over the summer and I had completley forgotten that I do not have access to the Sound Device in the summer therefore I will have to probably shoot through the camera and buy a good mic for that. I have JVC110. Is this even a good idea? I mean how good will the sound be? Or should I rent out a Sound Device, this will be my Thesis Film which I will be sending to major festivals. Can I record sound through the camera with a good mic and get away with it????
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Old March 24th, 2007, 05:10 PM   #2
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How many mics are you using? What kinds?

I would suggest a Sound Devices 302 mixer at the least. You can record into the camera from this with optimal levels. You can also use the extra stereo output to go to a wav recorder (I use a an M-Audio MicroTrack) You could buy it the mixer, then sell it and spend much less than a rental.

You might be able to borrow a ixer from someone who is looking to help out new film makers. You also might find one used. You could contact Sound Devices and see if they have refurbished units or some program for someone doing a thesis project.

The mixer is a good idea to get the best levels, have the auto limiter, etc. and you can output to a wav recorder at the same time (something like even a MicroTrack)

The 722 abd 744 are a complete recording solution, but expensive and not as adaptaptable to all kinds of uses as just a 302 mixer.

However, there are enough benefits to using a mixer (a high quality one) that if I were you I would look into all possibilities that would allow me to.

At the least, a 302 is an investment that could be used for years in just about any situation.
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Old March 24th, 2007, 08:42 PM   #3
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FWIW, the HD100 records both compressed and PCM audio ( uncompressed 48K 16bit ) in HDV mode, however you have to make two passes at the tape.

1. load HDV shots with compressed sounds
2. Dupe the clip in your bin and make sure its a new master clip ( if you have one of those brain dead NLE's that uses master/sub clip nonsense )
3. change deck/camera to DV setting
4. reload the duped clips which will take in the uncompressed audio
5. place both video and uncompressed audio into TL, sync, and drag back into bin as the "final" clip

about the same as doing external syn sound, but at least doing this you get matching TC / one tape.

what you should do is make sure your particular HD100/110 has quite audio ins.
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Old March 25th, 2007, 12:18 AM   #4
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I will be only using one microphone, I have a budget of $500 for a mic, I have yet to pick out a good one.

It's my understanding that the sound I get from the camera even if I use a good mic is not as good as the sound I will be able to get from the Sound Device...is this because of the bits, the compression, etc?

Basically, I thinking if this film gets played in a theatre will I have problem with the sound because I recorded it through the camera?
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Old March 25th, 2007, 12:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Oakley View Post
FWIW, the HD100 records both compressed and PCM audio ( uncompressed 48K 16bit ) in HDV mode, however you have to make two passes at the tape.
Is this actually true? The last time I read a thread about this it was true there was one track of wav sound, but not the other. Also, there were other issues if I remember. Does the camera really record wav audio in addition to the regular audio that is as usable as an external recorder?

-----------------------------------
Regarding the issue at hand, the best answer about the minimum requirements for sound and recording in the camera would be best answered by one of the posters who has shot a feature that has gone to the big screen, e.g. Tim Dashwood.

However, the factors that will most affect the quality of the sound are the microphone, the microphone placement and handling, and the levels of the recorded sound, then add controlling the background, etc. For dialog, if the right signal is fed into the camera, the camera recording should be quite adequate for the raw signal.

The actual choice of microphone depends a lot on the location and type of shooting you will do and how you are going to cover the scenes and the type of scenes. $500 might be a little low to get the low price limit professional quality. Depending on how much shooting you are doing over how long a period of time, you might do best to rent mics... or if you are going to only shoot a few days, to find/hire someone to do your sound who already has the equipment/mics.

The first step to get good sound is to totally plan the shoot. Next is to be sure whoever is capturing the sound has some experience. Not to belabor might point in an earlier post, a good mixer (with top quality preamps) can go a long way is smoothing out some of the variables.
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Old March 25th, 2007, 04:15 AM   #6
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WAV OUT PUT, can anyone confirm thsi

Hi according to steve i can capture
1/ whole tape in HDV mode,
2/ in DV mode and gets the sound in wav format

and i m using vegas, but seems in DV mode it's not able to capture as DV
can i use freeware like WinDV?
thanks
JY
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Old March 25th, 2007, 04:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayk Paul View Post
Hey guys, I go to film school where I have access to Sound Devices 722 & 744 which are essentially top-level industry hardware for recording sound, however I plan on shooting over the summer and I had completley forgotten that I do not have access to the Sound Device in the summer therefore I will have to probably shoot through the camera and buy a good mic for that. I have JVC110. Is this even a good idea? I mean how good will the sound be? Or should I rent out a Sound Device, this will be my Thesis Film which I will be sending to major festivals. Can I record sound through the camera with a good mic and get away with it????
How good do you need the sound to be? What are you shooting? How many inputs will you need?

For simple stuff I get perfectly good results with a Rode NTG-1 microphone, wired direct into the camera. But then, I'm not recording the sound the wind makes when an butterfly flaps its wings.

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Old March 25th, 2007, 12:21 PM   #8
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I need the sound to be good enough to be played in a film festival and not sound like a student film.

I am recording dialogue, half INT and half EXT, generally in quiet areas (with one exception).

I can't afford the Sound Device Mixer it's 1300, all I can get is a good mic $500-800.
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Old March 25th, 2007, 01:01 PM   #9
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there are lots of decent to really good mics in the $250-$400 range. like another poster said, its more about good placement and good levels than anything else. I use wireless lavs a lot and skip the boompole thing all together, a lot less hassle. even a cheap mic well used will sound good. these days there aren't many bad mics, so don't worry about spending all your money for the best mic. you also need at least 1 fishpole, I'd suggest one in the 9-12ft range, and a dead cat for shooting outside. both these items will cost you another $300 or so. so spend around $300 or so for a mic, and then get the other support items. don't forget some XLRs in 20ft lengths. I like the thin light wieght cable, its easier to handle. then again, if and when I do put a mic in a pole, I really preffer to run it wireless for safety and conveinence.

another thought - you can use a laptop to record to if you have a external FW or USB audio interface, or even another DV camera if its got manual levels. lots of options.

FWIW wav is a PC sound file format. it has nothing to do with what the camera records, which is 48k 16bit stereo
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Old March 25th, 2007, 01:17 PM   #10
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I have and use this mic, the Audio Technica 4073a. This mic has been widely used professionally and has the low-end price for this quality mic:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ist&sku=400803

It is great outside and works well inside (though a higher ceiling is better, meaning small rooms may get echoes if it isn't place exactly right).

Audio Technica also makes the AT897 that gives good sound for what you are doing and here is a B&H kit that includes everything you need (boom pole, etc.) for under $600:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Here's the AT897 without the accessories for $250:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

The Rode NTG-1 is in the same category as the AT897 and is available in the kit form here:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

The Rode sells for $229 alone from B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...746&is=REG&m=Y

The short shotgun approach will probably give you the best sound with the most versatility. Of course this assumes you will be able to use a boom pole for everything.

If you are not going to have someone on the boom and need to do everything yourself, you are most likely looking at lavalier mic(s) and probably a wireless system.

There is a new dual channel system from Azden (dual receiver and two transmitters) that B&H has for $639.95:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

In wireless the next step up is probably the Sennheiser G2 for $500 with the standard mic:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

The G2 is easy to use and very popular. A mic upgrade is possible to say the Tram TR50 (a long time workhorse of the movie industry) for $230.

With the Sennheiser you only get one mic system for your budget and with the Azden you get two.

For dialog any of the above mics would give you good sound for your purpose if it is recorded properly and handled properly in post.

I am sure others have other mic suggestions.

Last edited by Jack Walker; March 25th, 2007 at 04:09 PM.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 02:51 AM   #11
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Wow guys thanks a lot! Hey Jack, noticed you live in Burbank, I'm in Pasadena, know any places where they will give me good deals, or should I just stick with BH on the internet. Thanks.

Last edited by Hayk Paul; March 26th, 2007 at 02:57 AM. Reason: Fogot something
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