Highest Quality Resolution in hd110u at DVinfo.net

Dave Carson · April 13th, 2007, 07:37 PM

30p 720 I believe is the settings for the highest resolution you can attain on a HD110u. Am I correct?

I haven't slept for 3 days as I write this so feel free to chuckle amongst yourselves.

Eric Darling · April 13th, 2007, 11:48 PM

In both visual and temporal terms, yes.

Carlos Rodriguez · April 14th, 2007, 01:38 AM

wait a second, I thought the HD110 provides live 720/60P analog component output (4:2:2 equivalent), which should be higher quality? Unless you're talking about what goes on tape.

Bill Ravens · April 14th, 2007, 06:55 AM

Carlos...

How do you propose to capture 4:2:2 component while in the field?

Antony Michael Wilson · April 14th, 2007, 08:57 AM

I was thinking generator, Mac, Kona card, RAID array mounted in a rack with wheels, tethered to the HD100 and an assistant to push it all along. But if you're actually in a field you'd need bigger wheels. You could just use a cheap plug-in to filter out the generator noise and fix right up in post. Blackmagic instead of the Kona card for those on a budget...

Daniel Patton · April 14th, 2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos Rodriguez

wait a second, I thought the HD110 provides live 720/60P analog component output (4:2:2 equivalent), which should be higher quality? Unless you're talking about what goes on tape.

Higher quality in chroma perhaps, but lower in final pixel detail out component.

Antony - "tethered to the HD100 and an assistant to push it all along."

That's what I'm doing wrong, I keep forgetting to budget one of those. ;)

Matthew Rogers · April 14th, 2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Patton

Higher quality in chroma perhaps, but lower in final pixel detail out component.

Antony - "tethered to the HD100 and an assistant to push it all along."

That's what I'm doing wrong, I keep forgetting to budget one of those. ;)

Hey Daniel,

Why do you say lower final pixel detail? Because it's no longer digital?

Also, I keep forgetting that I need to get to know you. I live/work only about 2 miles away from digital media one in west knox. I know you all are getting a RED cam, and my company is also looking at getting. I actually did a little work for you guys while I still worked at HPVideo--I helped Josiah Morgan pull some footage off of the HVX-200 P2 when you first shot HD for Patricia Cornwell. Shoot me an email at matthew@macvilleproductions.com

Thanks,

Matthew

Fernando Orozco · April 14th, 2007, 09:27 PM

For me the best quality you can get from hd100-200 is recording in 24p and converted to 8-bit 4:2:2 for more accurate color correction and fx

Bill Ravens · April 15th, 2007, 05:14 AM

Glad to see that reason prevails...duh, why didn't I think of that..i.e. having a video processing facility tagging along with me....uhhh, maybe a real lo-o-o-o-ong umbilical so I can get into the bush...hehehehe. Lord knows being able to chroma-key is the difference between a backyard production and the real thing, eh?

Matthew Rogers · April 15th, 2007, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Glad to see that reason prevails...duh, why didn't I think of that..i.e. having a video processing facility tagging along with me....uhhh, maybe a real lo-o-o-o-ong umbilical so I can get into the bush...hehehehe. Lord knows being able to chroma-key is the difference between a backyard production and the real thing, eh?

I know that chroma keying is actually pretty good with the 110U. I just shot some food that I bluescreened and it looks like it was shot on a varicam in 4:2:2. The real key I think is making sure the detail is turned down (I know it sounds strange, but you don't get jagged edges) and converting your footage into a 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 format (I chose Sheer video.)

It would be nice if someone came out with a DTE device that had component imputs--then I could shoot 60P HD on my 110U!

Matthew

Bill Ravens · April 15th, 2007, 08:26 AM

[QUOTE=Matthew Rogers;660515
It would be nice if someone came out with a DTE device that had component imputs--then I could shoot 60P HD on my 110U!

Matthew[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that would be a HOT seller. Unfortunately, it's a very difficult problem. The solutions are expensive, bulky, and power hungry. The most realistic approach is to capture component from the camera, convert to a compressed format before writing to disk or CF memory. Compression techniques are destructive, so, this part needs to be done carefully. Only Cineform seems, so far, to have this technique commercially available. Something like 12 bit, 4:2:2 is needed, and that means a lot more storage space than is practical, currently, from CF memory. Hard drive storage is power hungry and very fragile.

Daniel Patton · April 15th, 2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Rogers

Hey Daniel,

Why do you say lower final pixel detail? Because it's no longer digital?

Also, I keep forgetting that I need to get to know you. I live/work only about 2 miles away from digital media one in west knox. I know you all are getting a RED cam, and my company is also looking at getting. I actually did a little work for you guys while I still worked at HPVideo--I helped Josiah Morgan pull some footage off of the HVX-200 P2 when you first shot HD for Patricia Cornwell. Shoot me an email at matthew@macvilleproductions.com

Thanks,

Matthew

Sorry, off topic for a sec here...
How about that. Neighbors indeed! Closer than you know... Westland. A lot of production people in this town thanks to Scripps Network and HPVideo. ;) Josiah, Danny, all good people.
I didn't know we had any other HD100/110 shooters in the area besides Joey Davis and myself? You missed out on a shoot a couple weeks ago, a New York production company hired us for a 4 camera shoot (JVC cams only), most fun I have had all year.

Back on topic.
And yes, I mean the image starts to degrade (goes soft) when pushed out component and the cameras DAC compared to even HDV/Mpeg stream. It's a trade off of more color for degraded image detail. Hardly worth the trade off when keying. Capture 2 seconds uncompressed, while also going to tape as HDV, then compare the two frame by frame. If uncompressed via component works for your application, then you are very lucky.

Peace!

April 13th, 2007, 07:37 PM	#1
Dave Carson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 32	Highest Quality Resolution in hd110u 30p 720 I believe is the settings for the highest resolution you can attain on a HD110u. Am I correct? I haven't slept for 3 days as I write this so feel free to chuckle amongst yourselves.

April 13th, 2007, 11:48 PM	#2
Eric Darling Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 463	In both visual and temporal terms, yes.

April 14th, 2007, 01:38 AM	#3
Carlos Rodriguez Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Modesto, California Posts: 206	wait a second, I thought the HD110 provides live 720/60P analog component output (4:2:2 equivalent), which should be higher quality? Unless you're talking about what goes on tape.

April 14th, 2007, 06:55 AM	#4
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Carlos... How do you propose to capture 4:2:2 component while in the field?

April 14th, 2007, 08:57 AM	#5
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	I was thinking generator, Mac, Kona card, RAID array mounted in a rack with wheels, tethered to the HD100 and an assistant to push it all along. But if you're actually in a field you'd need bigger wheels. You could just use a cheap plug-in to filter out the generator noise and fix right up in post. Blackmagic instead of the Kona card for those on a budget...

April 14th, 2007, 09:27 PM	#8
Fernando Orozco Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colombia Posts: 26	For me the best quality you can get from hd100-200 is recording in 24p and converted to 8-bit 4:2:2 for more accurate color correction and fx

April 15th, 2007, 05:14 AM	#9
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Glad to see that reason prevails...duh, why didn't I think of that..i.e. having a video processing facility tagging along with me....uhhh, maybe a real lo-o-o-o-ong umbilical so I can get into the bush...hehehehe. Lord knows being able to chroma-key is the difference between a backyard production and the real thing, eh?

April 15th, 2007, 08:26 AM	#11
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	[QUOTE=Matthew Rogers;660515 It would be nice if someone came out with a DTE device that had component imputs--then I could shoot 60P HD on my 110U! Matthew[/QUOTE] Yeah, that would be a HOT seller. Unfortunately, it's a very difficult problem. The solutions are expensive, bulky, and power hungry. The most realistic approach is to capture component from the camera, convert to a compressed format before writing to disk or CF memory. Compression techniques are destructive, so, this part needs to be done carefully. Only Cineform seems, so far, to have this technique commercially available. Something like 12 bit, 4:2:2 is needed, and that means a lot more storage space than is practical, currently, from CF memory. Hard drive storage is power hungry and very fragile.