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Old April 17th, 2007, 01:26 AM   #16
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So whats up with the audio lag in final cut pro 6 has it been fixed?
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Old April 17th, 2007, 02:02 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
If you edit native HDV, you are always working in 4:4:4 uncompressed within FCP.
Steve how is that possible for those out there without 4gb fibre channel disk arrays?


Gary, what audio lag are you speaking of?
I've not seen or heard of any audio lag on my fcp system editing HDV from the HD100.
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Old April 17th, 2007, 02:52 AM   #18
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Steve how is that possible for those out there without 4gb fibre channel disk arrays?
It makes not one iota of difference WHEN Mpeg-2 is decoded to uncompressed video as the process is always the same:

1) MPEG-2 IN and uncompressed OUT.

2) At the same time, MPEG-2's 4:2:0 color space is upsampled to either 4:2:2 (uncompressed video that is written to a file) or 4:4:4 immediately used by FCP.

3) If you choose 10-bit uncompressed video written to a file, the 8-bit baseband video is upsampled. Likewise, if you set FCP to 10-bit, 8-bit baseband video is upsampled.

If you choose to convert after capturing MPEG-2 you dramatically increase the size of all source material -- yet no quality is gained. Whatever MPEG-2 artifacts you might think are in HDV, will be copied perfectly. Huge cost and no gain.

Conversly, if you leave the MPEG-2 in a file -- nothing at all degrades.

When FCP needs a video frame, it decodes the frame it needs to 4:4:4 uncompressed at either 8-bits or 10-bits. It makes no difference whether the mpeg-2 frame is an I,B, or P frame. All information needed to get an uncompressed frame is gathered and used. (Likewise, if you convert immediately after capture, each uncompressed frame is totally independent of its I, B, P nature.)

So, it makes no difference to FCP whether it reads an uncompressed frame from a file or it reads an mpeg-2 frame from a file and decodes it. The frame fcp uses has exactly the same quality. No more and no less.

All FX, CC, and even exports, are done -- as they must be -- on uncompressed 4:4:4 frames. When a frame enters the render/display/export engine, there is no history of what it was in a file. Or, when it was converted.

In all cases, each MPEG-2 frame has been decoded exactly ONCE. And, no matter how many layers, when it comes time for export -- no matter if your source files are were uncompressed or MPEG-2, each HDV frame will have been decoded only one time.

As the render engine works on images -- no "MPEG-2 errors accumulate" because everything in the render engine is uncompressed. When the final result of each frame is complete -- it is displayed and discarded -- never to be used again. Contrary to what many believe, the result is not re-rencoded to MPEG-2. It's tossed.

Even if you force a render -- which with fcp's realtime ability you should not need to do all that often -- the preview files are never used for the final export.
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Old April 17th, 2007, 03:51 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Steve Benner View Post
So no news from JVC huh? I was really hoping for a HD100 compaion like the A1.

As for FCP, I imagine that 50/60P support should be quicker than the almost 1.5 years it took last time since the 24/25P support was welcomed so well. And Apple is now beating the crap out of Avid, so that would just be another blow.

As for Avid lack of interest in us JVC users (same goes for the Canon and Sony HDV), they should be ashamed of themselves. Yes, the "Best Editor on the planet." - Bullshit. I am through with Avid. I knew nothing was being done in Version 5 for JVC and I came to terms with that, but to hear NOTHING at NAB. Rediculous.

I ordered my FCS upgrade. No more Avid.
With you 100% on this, Steve.

We're running FCP 5.1.4 with a Kona card now and our (more expensive) Avid gear is up for sale! It's the end of 8 years of pure Avid editing for me. This HDV1 thing is the straw that broke the camel's back here.

These last two weeks have been my first time editing seriously on FCP and we're working mostly on HDV1 25fps material with great success. I made a wishlist over those two weeks of what I wished FCP would include to make it put it on a par with the Avid finishing systems I have used for years. I'm pleased to say that nearly everything on that list has been addressed with FCP Studio 6.

For PC users the NAB announcement of the new Liquid variant with AJA Xena support is very good news indeed.
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Old April 17th, 2007, 05:57 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson View Post
With you 100% on this, Steve.

We're running FCP 5.1.4 with a Kona card now and our (more expensive) Avid gear is up for sale! It's the end of 8 years of pure Avid editing for me. This HDV1 thing is the straw that broke the camel's back here.

These last two weeks have been my first time editing seriously on FCP and we're working mostly on HDV1 25fps material with great success. I made a wishlist over those two weeks of what I wished FCP would include to make it put it on a par with the Avid finishing systems I have used for years. I'm pleased to say that nearly everything on that list has been addressed with FCP Studio 6.

For PC users the NAB announcement of the new Liquid variant with AJA Xena support is very good news indeed.
The Liquid announcement is good as well yes. But if I was on a PC, I would use the Adobe Studio Probably (I know it's for Macs as well, but I like FCP, especially now!).
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Old April 18th, 2007, 06:15 AM   #21
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MINI 35 Compact for 1/3" cameras with detachable lens

C like Compact
Image Converter for 1/3" cameras with detachable lens


Use 35mm film lenses on your digital video camcorder to achieve better images in HDV format. Depth of field, focus and angle of view are virtually the same as with a 35mm motion picture camera.

What's New ?
- More light sensitive resulting from a new designed high quality relay lens
- Compact and lightweight design
- Competitive pricing
- Prepared for P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System (IMS)

MINI35 C like Compact

The new MINI35 Compact combines the market proven features of the MINI35 `400 model with re-designed optical elements into a more compact and lightweight housing, especially for video cameras with a detachable lens. First time presented to the market in 1999, the MINI35 Image Converter became a successful product and a must-know tool to the digital film and video industry. The current technological development shows how important the 35mm format and its features are still to professional film production.

Key Features
- Optimized for 35mm film lenses - motion and still
- Virtually the same depth of field, focus length and angle of view as with a 35mm film camera
- P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System available for shooting with Arri PL, Nikon, Panavision, Leica, Zeiss-Contax or Canon EF 35mm lenses
- Industry standard 15mm lightweigth support rods accommodate popular matte boxes, follow focus units, and other professional motion picture accessories

22695 MINI35C Compact Image Converter for JVC HD-GY251
Incl. 1 side handle, provided for 15mm LWS rods, interface for 35mm bridge plate, prepared for P+S Interchangeable Mount System (add. order of one IMS mount neccessary)

Click here for more info en specs.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 11:32 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
It makes not one iota of difference WHEN Mpeg-2 is decoded to uncompressed video as the process is always the same:

All that info is great (I'm the resident compressionist here at work and I understand your lingo)
but I don't think it answers the question.

Somebody with a mac/intel system that has a firewire port only for digital video capture of HDV to their local sata drive will not be doing anything uncompressed except export processing....correct? (and thats why it takes so long with such low bandwidth)

Last edited by Mark Silva; April 18th, 2007 at 06:08 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 03:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson View Post
With you 100% on this, Steve.

We're running FCP 5.1.4 with a Kona card now and our (more expensive) Avid gear is up for sale! It's the end of 8 years of pure Avid editing for me. This HDV1 thing is the straw that broke the camel's back here.

These last two weeks have been my first time editing seriously on FCP and we're working mostly on HDV1 25fps material with great success. I made a wishlist over those two weeks of what I wished FCP would include to make it put it on a par with the Avid finishing systems I have used for years. I'm pleased to say that nearly everything on that list has been addressed with FCP Studio 6.

For PC users the NAB announcement of the new Liquid variant with AJA Xena support is very good news indeed.


How is the FCP 6 trim mode compared to Avid Xpress? I've tried FCP at the Apple store but don't have much exposure otherwise. I really do like AVid's trim mode but wish they were much more feature rich otherwise.

TIA,

Andrew
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Old April 18th, 2007, 11:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Silva View Post
All that info is great (I'm the resident compressionist here at work and I understand your lingo)
but I don't think it answers the question.

Somebody with a mac/intel system that has a firewire port only for digital video capture of HDV to their local sata drive will not be doing anything uncompressed except export processing....correct? (and thats why it takes so long with such low bandwidth)
any NLE has to convert internally to either RGB or YUV uncompressed frames in order to perform any operation on that video such as color correction, overlay, layers, transitions, ect.you can't preform an operation on that video any other way. then that newly rendered frame is then sent back out to whatever format the TL is set to. this is strictly about internal use, not about output to render files, hardware, or DV-> FW port.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 12:07 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Steve Oakley View Post
... then that newly rendered frame is then sent back out to whatever format the TL is set to.
This is a myth -- the frame is discarded after being converted to RGB for display. It is never used as it has no value.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 12:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
This is a myth -- the frame is discarded after being converted to RGB for display. It is never used as it has no value.

Here is a link to the JVC Pro press page for NAB 2007

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2007/nab/default.htm

Regards,
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Old April 19th, 2007, 01:21 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Jayson View Post

Key Features
- Optimized for 35mm film lenses - motion and still
- Virtually the same depth of field, focus length and angle of view as with a 35mm film camera
- P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System available for shooting with Arri PL, Nikon, Panavision, Leica, Zeiss-Contax or Canon EF 35mm lenses
- Industry standard 15mm lightweigth support rods accommodate popular matte boxes, follow focus units, and other professional motion picture accessories
Shame it doesn't have a built in flip image option - they R leaving us, HD100 owners out in the cold. Pity. Looks like a cool thing and an improvement on the ol' Mini35.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 02:07 AM   #28
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Craig Yanagi presentation at NAB 2007

Here you can find a video of Craig Yanagi explaining the difference between the JVC ProHD cams.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 11:47 AM   #29
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Anyone went to NAB and if so, anything new excting to share?
Since the Apple stuff has been already listed in detail...
Adobe Creative Suite CS3 , Adobe AfterEffects CS3, Premiere is back to the Mac. DVRack is now "On Location". Adobe is committing to a true multiplatform release of all its tools. It will be interesting to see if On Location and Ultra will be included.
AfterEffects CS3 introduces vanishing point 2.0 with exchange of 3D worlds from Photoshop CS3. Many other features, 3D text improvement, puppet pin tool which works equally well with pictures and drawings, native Intel support for Mac means that I can now scrub HD 1080p footage in AfterEffects in my laptop.

The new Adobe Media Player allows you to play Flash files from the desktop, introduces the ability to include interactive elements that pause the movie, open subwindow and can connect to online information while the movie plays. Also, movies can cause automatic switching of skins in the player. Very, very nice.

Reagarding codecs, this is not something from NAB but you should do yourself a favor and look at SheerVideo by BitJazz (http://www.bitjazz.com) SheerVideo is a lossless compressor that generates files that are less than 1/2 the size of uncompressed and retain all the color informaiton. In fact it's one of the best ways that I found to interchange information between applications while having the absolute guarantee that colors are preserved. Interestingly enough, it runs and plays faster than other uncompressed codecs. BitJazz has a free preview that runs for 20 days and the reader is free as well.

At the optical/digital level Tiffen has demonstrated an impressive new software called Dfx. It has the emulation of all Tiffen filters by their "hardware" names, it includes the Rosco light gels again by name and it has listed a massive amount of GAM gobo patterns. You can take a picture via your digital camera and then apply the filters, light gels and patterns and come up with a new picture or use it to define the look of your movie in pre-production. This allows you to see the effects of any given Tiffen filter at home with all kind of pictures that you have.
Very, very nice.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 12:31 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
At the optical/digital level Tiffen has demonstrated an impressive new software called Dfx. It has the emulation of all Tiffen filters by their "hardware" names, it includes the Rosco light gels again by name and it has listed a massive amount of GAM gobo patterns. You can take a picture via your digital camera and then apply the filters, light gels and patterns and come up with a new picture or use it to define the look of your movie in pre-production. This allows you to see the effects of any given Tiffen filter at home with all kind of pictures that you have.
Very, very nice.
Thanks for that info, Paulo. I have been waiting for someone to do that. BTW, I saw you at NAB but wasn't in a position to say hello at the time. I did bump into Jonathan at the Fujinon party on Monday as I was leaving. They need to have 3 days for the show and 2 weeks for the parties so that we can fit them into all of our schedules.

-gb-
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