200/250 and Discovery HD Revisited

Brian Drysdale · June 21st, 2007, 03:20 AM

Does the LoLux reduce the noise levels on the normal gain settings?

I can only recall one occasion when I wanted more than 18db gain on a BVW 400, so the use of really high gain levels tends to be specialist. That one occasion was at night in the countryside filming a fly on the wall documentary on "the troubles" in Northern Ireland.

Glen Vandermolen · June 21st, 2007, 03:31 PM

I've spoken with a guy in JVC's New Jersey plant about the LoLux upgrade. He had yet to hear about it, but was going to check with the engineering staff and get back to me. Here's another link to the article and a link to the author's email:

http://www.studiodaily.com/hdstudio

I tried writing to the auther, Michael Grotticelli, but my email came back as undeliverable. Perhaps someone else can have more success. I just wanted to know if Michael had more info.

Glen Vandermolen · June 21st, 2007, 04:53 PM

Here's an interesting Q&A article about Discovery HD's guidelines.

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/is.../discovery.pdf

Jim Boda · June 21st, 2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Here's an interesting Q&A article about Discovery HD's guidelines.

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/is.../discovery.pdf

Quote:

...Footage that looks great in post is of limited use if it doesn't work well with the compression that all networks apply at the time of transmission and distribution.

Hmmmm. I wonder what the standard (if there is a standard) rate of compression is applied by networks at the time of transmission.

Marc Colemont · June 22nd, 2007, 06:13 AM

I got an email back from my JVC dealer (the technician who did my HD100 updates)...
This LoLux was a betatest a while ago which worked with minimum gain of 24dB, but the image was too noisy and not suitable therefore for professional usage.
Bummer... hopefully this article is talking about a newer version coming up.

Glen Vandermolen · June 22nd, 2007, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Colemont

I got an email back from my JVC dealer a minute ago...
This LoLux was a betatest a while ago which worked with minimum gain of 24dB, but the image was too noisy and not suitable therefore for professional usage. Bummer...

Well, this makes no sense in light of that article in Studiodaily.com. I'll admit the thought of shooting anything between 24 and 42 dbs of gain is unsettling.
Is it possible the HD200 line (with the 18x lens) was accepted by Discovery HD without the LoLux firmware? Is it possible the article is flat out wrong?
Questions, questions...

Joseph H. Moore · June 22nd, 2007, 10:22 AM

They're not sure they'd allow use of the RED One? C'mon, 4k progressive is good enough for Peter Jackson but not a relatively obscure HD cable station?

Tip McPartland · June 22nd, 2007, 11:17 AM

One visit to Discovery's headquarters near the capital and you'll get a sense of who they are. First, they encompass many networks, among them some of the more popular on cable/satellite:

Discovery
The Learning Channel (THC)
Animal Planet
Travel Channel
Discovery Health
Discovery Times
Military Channel
Discovery HD Theater

And there are no doubt a couple I missed.

The building that houses all these networks is nothing less than incredible. You really can get lost in it. By comparison, National Geographic Channel for instance is a log cabin.

Their engineering department sets the standards for all of the above channels, but I understand that rather than reinventing the wheel their work provides standards for other cable channels.

I went through hell and perdition with them because they wouldn't accept my JVC D-9 format KY-D29 2/3" 4:2:2 camera even though they accepted lesser DV format cameras (standard def days). JVC even offered to provide them with a deck to eliminate that possible objection, but they never accepted D-9 (aka Digital-S) which is identical do DVCPro50 but with a 1/2" and therefor more robust tape.

Tip

Brian Mills · June 22nd, 2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph H. Moore

They're not sure they'd allow use of the RED One? C'mon, 4k progressive is good enough for Peter Jackson but not a relatively obscure HD cable station?

Can you blame Discovery for not being willing to COMMIT to accepting a format that isn't even released yet? The article says that their engineers put the new techologies through field production tests first. RED will be no different. I'm 99.9999% sure it will pass, but lets face it, NO ONE outside of the RED camp is using them yet (and they have no set release date as of yet, either!)

Glen Vandermolen · June 22nd, 2007, 03:26 PM

OK, I received a return email from Michael Grotticelli, the author of the Studiodaily piece. Unfortunately, he couldn't answer too many of my questions and couldn't provide a link to the Discovery HD's newest guidelines (they keep those mostly private).

But he did say that on-camera interview type shows are acceptable for our cameras for D-HD, but they prefer 1080i for programs where outdoor scenes are prominent. That still doesn't clear up the picture. We can't shoot many scenics?? I find that a strange requirement. And I take it he meant 1080i from bigger chip HD cameras.

Oh well, what the heck. We still have kick-a$$ cameras.

June 22nd, 2007, 06:13 AM	#50
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	I got an email back from my JVC dealer (the technician who did my HD100 updates)... This LoLux was a betatest a while ago which worked with minimum gain of 24dB, but the image was too noisy and not suitable therefore for professional usage. Bummer... hopefully this article is talking about a newer version coming up. Last edited by Marc Colemont; June 22nd, 2007 at 06:52 AM.

June 22nd, 2007, 11:17 AM	#53
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Discovery is not exactly obscure... One visit to Discovery's headquarters near the capital and you'll get a sense of who they are. First, they encompass many networks, among them some of the more popular on cable/satellite: Discovery The Learning Channel (THC) Animal Planet Travel Channel Discovery Health Discovery Times Military Channel Discovery HD Theater And there are no doubt a couple I missed. The building that houses all these networks is nothing less than incredible. You really can get lost in it. By comparison, National Geographic Channel for instance is a log cabin. Their engineering department sets the standards for all of the above channels, but I understand that rather than reinventing the wheel their work provides standards for other cable channels. I went through hell and perdition with them because they wouldn't accept my JVC D-9 format KY-D29 2/3" 4:2:2 camera even though they accepted lesser DV format cameras (standard def days). JVC even offered to provide them with a deck to eliminate that possible objection, but they never accepted D-9 (aka Digital-S) which is identical do DVCPro50 but with a 1/2" and therefor more robust tape. Tip

June 21st, 2007, 03:20 AM	#46
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Does the LoLux reduce the noise levels on the normal gain settings? I can only recall one occasion when I wanted more than 18db gain on a BVW 400, so the use of really high gain levels tends to be specialist. That one occasion was at night in the countryside filming a fly on the wall documentary on "the troubles" in Northern Ireland.

June 21st, 2007, 03:31 PM	#47
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	I've spoken with a guy in JVC's New Jersey plant about the LoLux upgrade. He had yet to hear about it, but was going to check with the engineering staff and get back to me. Here's another link to the article and a link to the author's email: http://www.studiodaily.com/hdstudio I tried writing to the auther, Michael Grotticelli, but my email came back as undeliverable. Perhaps someone else can have more success. I just wanted to know if Michael had more info.

June 21st, 2007, 04:53 PM	#48
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Here's an interesting Q&A article about Discovery HD's guidelines. http://www.definitionmagazine.com/is.../discovery.pdf

June 22nd, 2007, 10:22 AM	#52
Joseph H. Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 362	They're not sure they'd allow use of the RED One? C'mon, 4k progressive is good enough for Peter Jackson but not a relatively obscure HD cable station?

June 22nd, 2007, 03:26 PM	#55
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	OK, I received a return email from Michael Grotticelli, the author of the Studiodaily piece. Unfortunately, he couldn't answer too many of my questions and couldn't provide a link to the Discovery HD's newest guidelines (they keep those mostly private). But he did say that on-camera interview type shows are acceptable for our cameras for D-HD, but they prefer 1080i for programs where outdoor scenes are prominent. That still doesn't clear up the picture. We can't shoot many scenics?? I find that a strange requirement. And I take it he meant 1080i from bigger chip HD cameras. Oh well, what the heck. We still have kick-a$$ cameras.