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Old February 11th, 2009, 01:37 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Brush View Post
Yes PC's can use QuickTime - HOWEVER: Those of us who use Avid know quite well that it cannot import timecode from quicktime files.
Isn't that an "Avid Arrogance" problem, not a JVC issue?
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Old February 11th, 2009, 02:05 PM   #122
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Convergent Flash XDR Ships With MXF and QT Support -

If Convergent can do it than why can't JVC? Convergent uses the same Sony MPEG 2 codecs.

I don't think it is matter of anyone's arrogance. Possibly, maybe, short-sighteness on JVC's part. Because mxf is used by Avid, Adobe Premiere, After Effects, Canopus Edius and others as the file format for editing the Sony MPEG 2 codecs, among other codecs. So it isn't just Avid that they're possibly leaving out.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 02:07 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adair View Post
We are still dealing with the realities of extreme compression of higher frame rate progressive HD footage here, and the moderate increase paired with compatibility to existing economy flash cards is a practical niche for working professionals.
You nailed it- the compression! It's like you'd try to convince me that jpeg or tiff are the way to go vs RAW in still photography.
With SHXC cards at 2TB and fast write/read speed (way above 35Mb/sec) neither the space or ability to write the signal is no longer the issue.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 02:09 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Robert Rogoz View Post
But as the cloud settles down it's going to be a minor improvement over already existing technology.
Personally, I don't care much about the improvement in technology. Finally a shoulder mounted XDCam EX capable camera that takes industry standard lights, batteries etc. Good enough for me.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 03:01 PM   #125
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The Sony EX cameras write an .mp4 file inside a proprietary folder structure. It's an mpeg2 codec, that writes to an mp4 container. Sony Vegas will NOT import that .mp4 file and it needs a rewrap to MXF. Thus it appears to me that NONE of these NLEs understand the XDCamEX codec and ALL need a rewrap.

Sony's MXF file format will not drop into Avid. Avid's MXF will not drop into Vegas (or anything else from what I can tell).

ProRes QT files apparently will drop into anything, though it is unknown to me if it will drop in with timecode in NLEs other than Avid.

The whole thing is a mess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Parks View Post
Convergent Flash XDR Ships With MXF and QT Support -

If Convergent can do it than why can't JVC? Convergent uses the same Sony MPEG 2 codecs.

I don't think it is matter of anyone's arrogance. Possibly, maybe, short-sighteness on JVC's part. Because mxf is used by Avid, Adobe Premiere, After Effects, Canopus Edius and others as the file format for editing the Sony MPEG 2 codecs, among other codecs. So it isn't just Avid that they're possibly leaving out.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 03:08 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Rogoz View Post
You nailed it- the compression! It's like you'd try to convince me that jpeg or tiff are the way to go vs RAW in still photography.
With SHXC cards at 2TB and fast write/read speed (way above 35Mb/sec) neither the space or ability to write the signal is no longer the issue.
35mb/sec is still Highly compressed. It's still gop based mpg2, not iframe. (Even DVCProHD 100mb/s has compromises). But it's enough to make a major difference in footage results for those of us working on the cutting edge.
Regarding the file formats and codec, I think this is pretty clear:
HD VIDEO RECORDING
Recording media: 2x SDHC memory card Class 6
Video recording:
Video codec: MPEG2 Long GOP
File Format: Quick time format for Final Cut Pro/ISO .MP4 media file format

Many edit systems will support one of the above right now - others may offer it in the near future. To have a robust popular system supporting it natively with this deckless, fast workflow NOW, is more than any new HD format release to date has offered.

Personally, the more I find out, the more I think this camera suits my needs.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 03:36 PM   #127
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How much footage at highest setting.

Anyone know how many minutes a 32GB card will hold of the highest setting?
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Old February 11th, 2009, 06:54 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Parks View Post
The brochure is worded in a very confusing fashion. I think it depends on your definition of native file format.
Here's the statement:

1) Native file recording—world's fastest shoot-to-edit workflow.
Native Final Cut Pro format
Edit immediately without conversion or transcoding


2) .MP4 file format
Available with optional SxS Media Recorder

Here's my take:

1) The camcorder has a built-in JVC MPEG-2 codec that records to SDHC cards. These files are wrapped as .MOV. It is not ProRes! To be edited by FCP, the audio will be PCM.

The JVC data sheet may have an error: "HQ mode:1920 x 1080/59.94i (.mov only)." Same for 50i. My reasoning is that "HQ" is the highest quality XDCAM EX setting and it would make no sense for it not to be supported by .mp4.


2) IF you add the add the SxS Media Recorder, MPEG-2 XDCAM EX data -- are wrapped as .MP4 and recorded to SxS. Both SP (25Mbps) and HQ (35Mbps) are supported.

Therefore, this is a path that's compatible with the Windows/OS X Sony Clip Browser. The Browser imports XDCAM EX for those NLE's -- like FCP via Log & Transfer -- that support native XDCAM EX editing. Premiere, for example, can also natively edit .MP4.

The Browser also can batch convert to other codecs -- such as DNxHD. Bottom-line, once you use the SxS Media Recorder, you get the full XDCAM EX workflows that already exist for your NLE.
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; February 11th, 2009 at 09:16 PM.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 07:15 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
I suspect that only 19Mbps (ProHD) and 25Mbps are supported to SDHC cards. IF so, when writing to both SDHC and SxS -- the data rate is limited to 25Mbps.
However, according to Tim Dashwoods first post here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...camcorder.html
The GY-HM100 will record 19, 25 and 35Mbps to SDHC cards.

This also includes the ProHD formats and 1440X1080 and 1920x1080 interlaced formats.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to think the HM700 would record these all to SDHC, even though the SXS recorder may add additional options?

Last edited by Jack Walker; February 11th, 2009 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Typo, changed second "25" to "35"
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Old February 11th, 2009, 07:23 PM   #130
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Steve,

You could be right if you consider the SXS would handle a higher data rate than SDHC.

I do find it interesting that the HMC 100 can record to SDHC in all flavors without the SXS. It makes me wonder if Sony is twisting JVC's arm to sell SXS.

But this brochure is even more confusing. If you look at the boxed table on page 3 under 35 Mbits, there is an asterik by 1440x1080 60i and 50i that references the note ".mov only"

Which totally contradicts the specifications page that listed 192ox1080i as .mov only and no reference by 1440x1080.

So it is a clear as mud...

Hopefully Steve you will develop one of your great Handbook/Guides series for these cameras like you did for the HD7. It was invaluable. Because we're gonna need one.

Cheers, David
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Old February 11th, 2009, 08:13 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker View Post
However, according to Tim Dashwoods first post here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...camcorder.html
The GY-HM100 will record 29, 25 and 25Mbps to SDHC cards.

This also includes the ProHD formats and 1440X1080 and 1920x1080 interlaced formats.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to think the HM700 would record these all to SDHC, even though the SXS recorder may add additional options?
Jack, I think you typed 29 when you meant 19. Anyway, I've edited my post to reflect your correction. Thank you!


"... even though the SXS recorder may add additional options."

You're right, it's not obvious what the SxS Media Recorder brings to the table if all formats can also be recorded to SDHC. Some thoughts:

Is the SDHC card's FAT32 file system a limitation for long running shots when you to try to use them in FCP? Does FCP's Log & Transfer stitch multiple 4GB files on SDHC together without error?

Will there be media-reference time-code on SDHC files? Or, only intra-clip time-code?

David, it's possible SxS offers important capabilities not required by the 100 buyer or even some 700 buyers. Nevertheless, the Media Recorder may be a "must have" for many shooters.
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; February 12th, 2009 at 01:31 AM.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 08:48 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Harry Pallenberg View Post
Anyone know how many minutes a 32GB card will hold of the highest setting?
EX1 does 16GB per hour.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 11:18 PM   #133
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Anyone think the viewfinder could possibly be backwards compatible with the HD200? It doesnt look like it to me, but I can hope.

I am interested to see how the 14x Canon glass performs.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 09:30 AM   #134
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Unfortunately the new LCOS viewfinder is *not* backward-compatible with the GY-HD series cameras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Standing View Post
Chris, just to confirm. You are saying the HM700 can save EITHER .mov OR JVC's XDCAM variant to SDHD, WITHOUT the SxS recorder?
Sorry, Brian, that's not what I'm saying. JVC's proprietary tech can record direct to SDHC on both new cameras, but to do so on the HM700 requires the presence of the SxS adapter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ladue View Post
Patiently waiting for Tim and Chris to give us the lowdown on the camera!! Very eager to know what she can do!
Thanks for your patience, Brian... Tim and I had a very busy, lightening-fast trip to Manhattan for back-to-back JVC and Panasonic press meetings, and Tim worked on some interesting stereo photography exercises in the city, plus we squeezed in a screening of "Fanboys" in Times Square. I've only just now returned to fire up the office. It's going to take a little time to get this stuff out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker View Post
However, according to Tim Dashwoods first post here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...camcorder.html The GY-HM100 will record 19, 25 and 35Mbps to SDHC cards. This also includes the ProHD formats and 1440X1080 and 1920x1080 interlaced formats. Wouldn't it be reasonable to think the HM700 would record these all to SDHC, even though the SXS recorder may add additional options?
Yes the HM700 can record all those formats direct to its SDHC card slots, as long as the SxS adapter is attached to the camera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Parks View Post
I do find it interesting that the HMC 100 can record to SDHC in all flavors without the SXS. It makes me wonder if Sony is twisting JVC's arm to sell SXS.
Whatever the reason may be, the main thing to note is that the HM100 can record XDCAM EX directly to SDHC. And while it can also be done on the HM700, to do so requires the presence of the SxS adapter on the camera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
...it's not obvious what the SxS Media Recorder brings to the table if all formats can also be recorded to SDHC.
All formats can be recorded to the SDHC card slots only if the SXS Media Reader is attached to the camera, otherwise the .MP4 (XDCAM EX) recording options aren't available. What the SxS Media reader brings to the table is basically a handshake that enables XDCAM recording on the HM700. Since it's not required for the smaller HM100 camera, it's most likely a licensing provision established by Sony... that's my take on it anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
...the Media Recorder may be a "must have" for many shooters.
You're right; the SxS Media Recorder will be a "must have" for anyone wanting to record XDCAM EX to the SDHC card slots on the HM700. I'm just wondering if it's possible to use the MxR solution (SDHC card with Express Card adapter) in the SxS media reader instead of an actual SxS card...?
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Old February 12th, 2009, 09:43 AM   #135
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Chris, Thanks for taking the time to clarify the SXS confusion. Look forward to more info from yourself and Tim.
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