Need A Portable Clip Player without the Camera... at DVinfo.net

Donald Smith · May 31st, 2009, 07:27 PM

I've been a network news freelance cameraman for many years but sold my Betacam pack a few years back to concentrate on editing for NBC's Today Show and Nightly News working out of their Southwest Bureau here in Dallas. But with freelancers being cut back I am putting together a camera pack again and starting with the HM700. I got a call tonight to rush to Wichita KS to do live shots in the morning on the shooting of that abortion doctor there. However, my camera is late in arriving and I had to turn down this particular shoot. (RATS!). However, this points out my need for a portable clip player like in the camera but without the camera. Everyone suggests that I use a laptop computer but this is not practical in breaking news environments where I shoot video and a producer takes that video to the uplink truck to feed it. I can't hand them an SDHC card to feed. They have no way of playing the clips on it! I need a small box that has the functions of the clip player on the camera and has SDI and Composite outputs along with a low-res, small LCD panel for reference. Something I can hand to a producer with the SDHC card and he or she can take both to the uplink truck and the truck op can see the video, hook it into his system easily, and feed it. To my knowledge, no such device exists. One truck op suggested a PlayStation 3 but its my understanding it won't play .mov files. I post this with the hope that JVC or a third-party developer will notice this need and consider building such a device.

Don Smith
NewsVideo.com

Robert Rogoz · May 31st, 2009, 10:56 PM

Don,
Can they play/ use DVD in the uplink truck? You can just record in .mov and use Toast 10 to quickly generate a DVD with the footage on your laptop.
You could buy HM100 and Matrox MO2 Mini.
About 3 or 4 years ago I was selling a riot footage to a TV station in Seattle. They could not capture my footage shot with DVX100, as they did not even have Firewire on the uplink truck. We ended up going to the local TV station and ended up using their DV deck. The point is that I doubt uplink truck will be equipped with any sort of connection that works for this situation.

Donald Smith · June 1st, 2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Rogoz

Don,
Can they play/ use DVD in the uplink truck? You can just record in .mov and use Toast 10 to quickly generate a DVD with the footage on your laptop.
You could buy HM100 and Matrox MO2 Mini.

You mean to help Robert, but I respectfully suggest that you're missing my point; this is breaking news and not production. I can't stop my shooting and deal with burning a DVD or take my camera out of commission for the purpose of feeding. Even if I could depend on a producer doing the transfer process, which I can't because they almost never have the technical expertise, he or she simply wouldn't have the luxury of time to do it. "Breaking News" dictates that what is shot is immediately fed out. In times past, when a new format comes along, camera people using that new format would provide a VTR for the truck to use to feed that new format. That's what I need now; something that will feed clips directly from the SDHC cards. I dream of a hand-held device that will have a reference LCD screen and will play the video on the SDHC clips to SDI or Composite outputs (switchable, of course, between anamorphic, letterboxed and centercut), and that device that can display the timecode of the clips on-screen so that a producer could use it to log clips on shot SDHC cards while the camera person is still shooting new video or in their hotel room at night. That box, which I'll call SSCP (Solid-State Clip Player) would also have a headphone jack. Buying an HM100 for that purpose is (1) EXPENSIVE, and (2) will need an HDMI-to-SDI interface (is there such a thing?) to feed HD video, (3) requires separate charging system and batteries) and (4) can be problematic for non-technical producers because the camera has to be in the same shooting mode as the recorded clips in order to play them back. Thank you for trying to help, though.

Donald Smith · June 1st, 2009, 07:07 AM

I changed my mind. I'll call it a "Portable Clip Player", or PCP. OK, there you go. I'll go down in history as the guy who came up with the perfect generic name! :)

Robert Rogoz · June 1st, 2009, 08:26 AM

Sounds like you rather need a microwave transmitter, so the signal can be fed into the truck from the camera.

"JVC Professional Products Company is introducing a high-efficiency Full HD microwave equipped camera system that, for the first time, brings affordable HD microwave capabilities to the ENG/EFP market. The ProHD Libre system provides native 60P HD capture, recording and transmission through a compact, onboard camera-back transmitter developed for JVC by Broadcast Microwave Services (BMS). A fully equipped system, complete with camera, lens, microwave transmitter and receiver can be configured for under $30,000. Previous systems with this capability began at more than $100,000."

Here is the link to JVC page: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL101715

However if you get the SxS recording unit and most likely you'll be able to use PMW-EX30 XDCAM-EX Player. Here is a link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Recording.html
Libre unit records through firewire, so you should be able to record to SxS and transmit at the same time.
You might be even be able to use SxS adapter and just shoot SDHC, use the adapter for upload, but you'd need to test this theory (MxR cards do work, but recorded on Sony). You'll need to record in ISO media format not .mov container though.
Hope I did not miss your point this time.

Jack Walker · June 1st, 2009, 09:19 AM

Just as a note, I believe such a player would cost more than an HM100.

Elvis Ripley · June 1st, 2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

Just as a note, I believe such a player would cost more than an HM100.

Agreed. More than an HM100 + an HDMI to SDI converter

Blackmagic Design: Mini Converters

Robert Rogoz · June 1st, 2009, 12:59 PM

With SxS box PMW-EX30 XDCAM-EX Player I believe is exact set up what is needed. The unit costs $3999.95. HM100 gives a backup option for a bit more.

Matthias Krause · June 1st, 2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

Just as a note, I believe such a player would cost more than an HM100.

He shoots with a HM700 though... And as a Pro the question is not how much something costs but how much money it will make you. At least it should be.

Jack Walker · June 1st, 2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthias Krause

He shoots with a HM700 though... And as a Pro the question is not how much something costs but how much money it will make you. At least it should be.

True, except my comment was in response to the original poster's comment: "Buying an HM100 for that purpose is (1) EXPENSIVE,...."

He is the one who considered the HM100 an expensive option. I just wanted to mention that the requested player would likely cost even more.

Donald Smith · June 1st, 2009, 04:06 PM

I appreciate everyone's suggestions but I'm aware of everything mentioned and none fit my purpose. If the truck needed live video they would just cable to me and put me in a static position. As for the SxS player, 4k is just overkill. It's ridiculous to pay that much for a Portable Clip Player. Besides, I moved to the HM700 for the benefit of the low-cost SDHC cards. How am I gonna wean them from expensive SxS cards (and P2 cards for that matter) if I go back to recording on SxS? (I owned a Sony EX3 for a while). I'm just asking for what I'm calling a Portable Clip Player and pointing out the need for such a device. No one seems to be listening when I say I need to hand a producer an SDHC card and a PCP of some kind to take to the truck, or take to the edit room, or take to a place where he or she can log the video. Adding in a laptop and a conversion process is just out of the question. When Betacam was new there were portable Betacam players and VTRs that could be handed to a truck operator or to an editor in an edit room accommodate the new format. My point here is that with low-cost SDHC cards there should be a low-cost Portable Clip Player. I'm just hoping others will sign on as agreeing with me in the hope that JVC or another developer will take up the cause.

Bob Richardson · June 1st, 2009, 04:26 PM

I realize you don't want to go with a laptop, but it may be the only route available at this time, short of buying a 2nd camera to use primarily as a clip player.

Just Googling around, I found this product:

DekTec - DTU-205 - FantASI USB-2 ASI/SDI output Adapter

If I understand the product description correctly, it can stream MPEG2 video files via its supplied software to the companion SDI-output adapter which is powered solely by the USB port.

The problem here, of course, is that currently that product is only for Windows or Linux, not Mac, so there'd be problems unwrapping the QuickTime .MOV files unless you also have the SxS adapter from JVC which allows you to record Sony's wrapper.

So as of today this won't work, but maybe this company could be nudged in a friendly way to examine the problem... all of the pieces might exist out there to unwrap .MOV files. Then, all you'd need is an inexpensive Windows notebook (maybe even a fast netbook), a card reader, and this USB device. Put it all in a foam-lined Pelican case so it's pre-wired and ready to go, and set it up to boot into the player software, then hand the whole works off to the truck crew or producer.

(The USB-to-SDI adapter is about 1,000 Euros, so with a notebook and case your still in pretty expensive territory, but still not into HM100 territory.)

Jack Walker · June 1st, 2009, 04:32 PM

Yeah, but for the kind a player you describe with SDI output, $4000 is inexpensive.

Perhaps you are looking for a player with HDMI output into an HDMI to SDI converter. Such a player should come in around a thousand dollars, with the several hundred more than for the converter. Now that would be cheap.

It sounds like you need an SXS/sdhc adapter so you can use the sdhc cards in the current player.. With the new Class 10 sdhc cards coming out by Panasonic, such an adapter is now reasonable since the Class 10 cards should be able to record as fast as the SXS cards.

Jack Walker · June 1st, 2009, 04:35 PM

If you have an HM700 that records mpeg4 files, why in the world would you want to record to mov?

Giroud Francois · June 1st, 2009, 06:11 PM

some PCP are able to play mpg4 and mpg2 video.

for example the western digital HD TV can play the EX1 files (video, no sound)., has usb input (allows a large choice of card reader), composite output (to connect a small lcd screen) or HDMI output (to connect a large LCS screen).

for the price, you will not find better deal than a cheap mini-laptop (around 500$) with a SD reader, if possible Expresscard slot, screen, hardisk, video output.).

May 31st, 2009, 07:27 PM	#1
Donald Smith Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 73	Need A Portable Clip Player without the Camera... I've been a network news freelance cameraman for many years but sold my Betacam pack a few years back to concentrate on editing for NBC's Today Show and Nightly News working out of their Southwest Bureau here in Dallas. But with freelancers being cut back I am putting together a camera pack again and starting with the HM700. I got a call tonight to rush to Wichita KS to do live shots in the morning on the shooting of that abortion doctor there. However, my camera is late in arriving and I had to turn down this particular shoot. (RATS!). However, this points out my need for a portable clip player like in the camera but without the camera. Everyone suggests that I use a laptop computer but this is not practical in breaking news environments where I shoot video and a producer takes that video to the uplink truck to feed it. I can't hand them an SDHC card to feed. They have no way of playing the clips on it! I need a small box that has the functions of the clip player on the camera and has SDI and Composite outputs along with a low-res, small LCD panel for reference. Something I can hand to a producer with the SDHC card and he or she can take both to the uplink truck and the truck op can see the video, hook it into his system easily, and feed it. To my knowledge, no such device exists. One truck op suggested a PlayStation 3 but its my understanding it won't play .mov files. I post this with the hope that JVC or a third-party developer will notice this need and consider building such a device. Don Smith NewsVideo.com

May 31st, 2009, 10:56 PM	#2
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	Don, Can they play/ use DVD in the uplink truck? You can just record in .mov and use Toast 10 to quickly generate a DVD with the footage on your laptop. You could buy HM100 and Matrox MO2 Mini. About 3 or 4 years ago I was selling a riot footage to a TV station in Seattle. They could not capture my footage shot with DVX100, as they did not even have Firewire on the uplink truck. We ended up going to the local TV station and ended up using their DV deck. The point is that I doubt uplink truck will be equipped with any sort of connection that works for this situation. Last edited by Robert Rogoz; June 1st, 2009 at 12:17 AM.

June 1st, 2009, 08:26 AM	#5
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	Sounds like you rather need a microwave transmitter, so the signal can be fed into the truck from the camera. "JVC Professional Products Company is introducing a high-efficiency Full HD microwave equipped camera system that, for the first time, brings affordable HD microwave capabilities to the ENG/EFP market. The ProHD Libre system provides native 60P HD capture, recording and transmission through a compact, onboard camera-back transmitter developed for JVC by Broadcast Microwave Services (BMS). A fully equipped system, complete with camera, lens, microwave transmitter and receiver can be configured for under $30,000. Previous systems with this capability began at more than $100,000." Here is the link to JVC page: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL101715 However if you get the SxS recording unit and most likely you'll be able to use PMW-EX30 XDCAM-EX Player. Here is a link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Recording.html Libre unit records through firewire, so you should be able to record to SxS and transmit at the same time. You might be even be able to use SxS adapter and just shoot SDHC, use the adapter for upload, but you'd need to test this theory (MxR cards do work, but recorded on Sony). You'll need to record in ISO media format not .mov container though. Hope I did not miss your point this time. Last edited by Robert Rogoz; June 1st, 2009 at 09:09 AM.

June 1st, 2009, 07:07 AM	#4
Donald Smith Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 73	I changed my mind. I'll call it a "Portable Clip Player", or PCP. OK, there you go. I'll go down in history as the guy who came up with the perfect generic name! :)

June 1st, 2009, 09:19 AM	#6
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	Just as a note, I believe such a player would cost more than an HM100.

June 1st, 2009, 12:59 PM	#8
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	With SxS box PMW-EX30 XDCAM-EX Player I believe is exact set up what is needed. The unit costs $3999.95. HM100 gives a backup option for a bit more.

June 1st, 2009, 04:06 PM	#11
Donald Smith Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 73	I appreciate everyone's suggestions but I'm aware of everything mentioned and none fit my purpose. If the truck needed live video they would just cable to me and put me in a static position. As for the SxS player, 4k is just overkill. It's ridiculous to pay that much for a Portable Clip Player. Besides, I moved to the HM700 for the benefit of the low-cost SDHC cards. How am I gonna wean them from expensive SxS cards (and P2 cards for that matter) if I go back to recording on SxS? (I owned a Sony EX3 for a while). I'm just asking for what I'm calling a Portable Clip Player and pointing out the need for such a device. No one seems to be listening when I say I need to hand a producer an SDHC card and a PCP of some kind to take to the truck, or take to the edit room, or take to a place where he or she can log the video. Adding in a laptop and a conversion process is just out of the question. When Betacam was new there were portable Betacam players and VTRs that could be handed to a truck operator or to an editor in an edit room accommodate the new format. My point here is that with low-cost SDHC cards there should be a low-cost Portable Clip Player. I'm just hoping others will sign on as agreeing with me in the hope that JVC or another developer will take up the cause.

June 1st, 2009, 04:26 PM	#12
Bob Richardson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 178	I realize you don't want to go with a laptop, but it may be the only route available at this time, short of buying a 2nd camera to use primarily as a clip player. Just Googling around, I found this product: DekTec - DTU-205 - FantASI USB-2 ASI/SDI output Adapter If I understand the product description correctly, it can stream MPEG2 video files via its supplied software to the companion SDI-output adapter which is powered solely by the USB port. The problem here, of course, is that currently that product is only for Windows or Linux, not Mac, so there'd be problems unwrapping the QuickTime .MOV files unless you also have the SxS adapter from JVC which allows you to record Sony's wrapper. So as of today this won't work, but maybe this company could be nudged in a friendly way to examine the problem... all of the pieces might exist out there to unwrap .MOV files. Then, all you'd need is an inexpensive Windows notebook (maybe even a fast netbook), a card reader, and this USB device. Put it all in a foam-lined Pelican case so it's pre-wired and ready to go, and set it up to boot into the player software, then hand the whole works off to the truck crew or producer. (The USB-to-SDI adapter is about 1,000 Euros, so with a notebook and case your still in pretty expensive territory, but still not into HM100 territory.)

June 1st, 2009, 04:32 PM	#13
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	Yeah, but for the kind a player you describe with SDI output, $4000 is inexpensive. Perhaps you are looking for a player with HDMI output into an HDMI to SDI converter. Such a player should come in around a thousand dollars, with the several hundred more than for the converter. Now that would be cheap. It sounds like you need an SXS/sdhc adapter so you can use the sdhc cards in the current player.. With the new Class 10 sdhc cards coming out by Panasonic, such an adapter is now reasonable since the Class 10 cards should be able to record as fast as the SXS cards.

June 1st, 2009, 04:35 PM	#14
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	If you have an HM700 that records mpeg4 files, why in the world would you want to record to mov?

June 1st, 2009, 06:11 PM	#15
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	some PCP are able to play mpg4 and mpg2 video. for example the western digital HD TV can play the EX1 files (video, no sound)., has usb input (allows a large choice of card reader), composite output (to connect a small lcd screen) or HDMI output (to connect a large LCS screen). for the price, you will not find better deal than a cheap mini-laptop (around 500$) with a SD reader, if possible Expresscard slot, screen, hardisk, video output.).