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Old June 9th, 2009, 12:06 PM   #16
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I am glad I don't have to worry about this for a bit. I just purchased 15" MacBook Pro a couple of months ago, so I am not going to upgrade for at least a couple of years. However this is kind of bad for any RAID users and people who are EX1/3 and potential buyers of Matrox Mini.
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Old June 9th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #17
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I like MACS, I have a 20inch IMAC. I like PC's, have a quad core Gateway.

But on the notebook side it is hard for me to justify the cost difference.

I can get an HP 18 inch with a 500 gig hard drive, media card reader, 512mb Nvidia,
an eSATA connector, express card slot, firewire, 4 Gig of ram all on a Quad Core processor for $1750.

vs. more than $2,500 for a less featured Macbook Pro.

I don't understand why Apple insists on cutting out features and charging more for its notebook line.
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Old June 9th, 2009, 11:54 PM   #18
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Hi Tim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
...decision actually does make sense to me.
Apple always seems to be ahead of the curve on hardware adoption - FW400, Gigabit Ethernet and FW800 being just a few examples. But this decision really doesn't make any sense to me. Save for the 17" option, which if history is a guide will follow the path of the 15" eventually, it limits the available options but also restricts innovation for new products that can take advantage of the ExpressCard interface's bandwidth. And how ironic is it that this is announced today?

Electronista | PCMCIA introduces ExpressCard Standard 2.0
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Old June 10th, 2009, 10:49 AM   #19
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Hi Tim,



Apple always seems to be ahead of the curve on hardware adoption - FW400, Gigabit Ethernet and FW800 being just a few examples. But this decision really doesn't make any sense to me. Save for the 17" option, which if history is a guide will follow the path of the 15" eventually, it limits the available options but also restricts innovation for new products that can take advantage of the ExpressCard interface's bandwidth. And how ironic is it that this is announced today?

Electronista | PCMCIA introduces ExpressCard Standard 2.0
Well what about ESATA or HDMI or quad core or Bluray? Sure Apple was ahead of the game when firewire first came out but they haven't really changed since then. Other then making a nice looking unibody case they haven't changed their form factor in many years. The Imac is still more or less the same. The Mac Pro uses the same case since the G5. The Mac book pros are for the most part unchanged except for the aluminum case and slightly faster cpus. If Apple was so innovative where are the quad core laptops? Where is ESATA? Where are the mid range quad core desktops? I'm sure at least the Imac could have a quad core option.

Apples products either use laptop based motherboards and cpus/gpus or server class motherboards and cpus/gpus. Where is the desktop class products which are much cheaper and perform right in the middle? Yes they have a quad core Mac Pro but that is server based which is pointless for something that could be done exactly the same with desktop parts. If somebody says its because desktop parts are of lower quality then what about the Mac Mini and Imac? Those are desktops that use laptop parts. There any many rock solid desktop class parts that would blow away quality control on any laptop parts.

Apple's new innovation is reserved just for looks and battery power which I will say is very impressive.
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Old June 10th, 2009, 05:33 PM   #20
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Well what about ESATA or HDMI or quad core or Bluray?
I'd love all those features, but eliminating the ExpressCard slot is not a step in that direction.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 12:31 AM   #21
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They are ubiquitous in digital SLRs and as non-proprietary efficient designs, they deserve to be built-in.
BTW it won't do much for your DSLR as both Nikon and Canon use CF not SD cards.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 01:05 AM   #22
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BTW it won't do much for your DSLR as both Nikon and Canon use CF not SD cards.
It depends on the model. Nikon & Canon have switched to SDHC cards for their low-end DSLR line (Nikon D5000, D90, D80, D60, D40 & Canon Digital Rebel XSi, T1i, XS with the SDHC option on 1D MkIII) but retains CF in the D300/700 and 5D MkII range. Professional photogs want the sturdiest media possible and that is still considered to be CF.

I think it is fair to say that as of 2009 SD/SDHC is dominating as the most popular flash format among consumer digital still and video cameras. It isn't as rugged as CF, Expresscard, PCMCIA, etc., but it sure is small, cheap, and available almost anywhere!
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Old June 11th, 2009, 10:21 AM   #23
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Tim, you are right. I was referring to to the upper end models only. However most professional photographers will not be shooting with Nikon D40 or or even 90. Apple historically always targeted pro-photographers and pro-videographers and pro-sound, rather then general public. I think recently there was a shift. As the result we can see some of the pro-support slowly going away or at least decreasing (like lack of BD).
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Old June 11th, 2009, 11:40 AM   #24
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On Apple's website they list the specs for the SD slot and it runs up to 240 mbits/s. That seems kind of slow for an integrated SD slot. Wouldn't a USB2 connected device actually run faster? They do not however mention if that bandwidth is shared with the USB2 ports.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 12:35 PM   #25
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Apple historically always targeted pro-photographers and pro-videographers and pro-sound, rather then general public. I think recently there was a shift. As the result we can see some of the pro-support slowly going away or at least decreasing (like lack of BD).
They obviously want to grab a larger percentage of the consumer market. I don't think they'll ever totally forget the professionals... we're the ones that kept Apple alive during the dark times.
BD support? I too am anxiously awaiting the reveal or release of FCS3 (could be NAB2010 for all we know) but in the meantime have conceded that Adobe Encore CS4 is a reasonable alternative to DVDSP. I just wish it had scripting.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 03:59 PM   #26
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Tim I did not only DVDSP and the lack of ability to author BD. I also mean by this statement I can't watch BD movies on my laptop. Within the same price range a lot of laptops have an option of at least BD playback ability.
I think Apple puts out a good product, but it seems to me that by catering to a broader range of customers they stop paying as much attention to their die hard supporters.
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Old June 12th, 2009, 09:34 AM   #27
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Thats what bootcamp is for. I have read a lot of people using Windows through bootcamp to watch Blu-ray movies with an extrernal blu-ray drive. They even used a display port to HDMI adapter to feed the signal with HDCP to a HDTV.

In a way Apple's simple solution to not being able to do something with software is to use Bootcamp. I would love 3D Studio Max support under Apple but I know I will never see it but bootcamping it works great.
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Old June 12th, 2009, 10:10 AM   #28
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Tim, you are right. I was referring to to the upper end models only. However most professional photographers will not be shooting with Nikon D40 or or even 90. Apple historically always targeted pro-photographers and pro-videographers and pro-sound, rather then general public. I think recently there was a shift. As the result we can see some of the pro-support slowly going away or at least decreasing (like lack of BD).
It's a D90 I have (did mention that)- uses SDHC cards. Does 720p video in low light you know.... 12mp and I've got some decent glass ( 10.5mm - 500mm!), I also use it for intervalometer programmed shooting. In the end having a card reader isn't a big deal, but I'm all over this, since I was looking at the previous 13.3" model without any card reader or firewire. Maybe some people will feel burnt at the 15" level, but I'm sure this is the right thing for most of the market. If you are dealing with esata raid and hardware video, the 17" is probably your first choice anyway. I'm very happy to see continued support for firewire. Isn't there a new spec coming that's right up there with SATA? FW800 is a great interface for all kinds of advanced devices. I like the idea that I could ramp to a Aja i/o HD on my little 13" macbook if needed. These are great value starting at under $1200.

Generally, I think mac laptops represent some of their better hardware value. You can't just compare the bolt on components which are cheap in themselves. It's the build quality, and tight integration through intensive functional design (not just a pretty face!).
I know people who've bought them mostly to run windows (not that I would suggest it).

Meanwhile, the macpro is a pricy affair. I bought a prior generation when I had to upgrade, since the equivalent current version would have been nearly double. I am thinking of trying a BD drive now that they are only $150, but encore and toast seem like the only games in town. I was kind of hoping to hear about playback support in Snow LEOPARD, since the the whole DCP thing has to be supported at the OS level. I think current mac video cards are all ready.
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Old June 12th, 2009, 03:15 PM   #29
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D90 is not accepted by most of stock agencies. A lot of other commercial clients will not pay for pictures shot on anything below D200 (D300 now). Stripping meta data in photoshop will not work as well, as they will simply refuse to even look at it. If you shoot weddings you might be fine, but good luck trying to sell the stills to even a mid range client.
I agree, Apple makes a really good product. However IMO recently they started "dumbing it down" as far as the support. I am also happy they keep firewire port. I think they have a really good software as well.
These are just my opinions, I am sure a lot of other users have different needs. I know Apple reads boards like this and this is my voice and my concerns as far as the range of support and features.
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Old June 15th, 2009, 09:14 AM   #30
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D90 is not accepted by most of stock agencies. A lot of other commercial clients will not pay for pictures shot on anything below D200 (D300 now). Stripping meta data in photoshop will not work as well, as they will simply refuse to even look at it. If you shoot weddings you might be fine, but good luck trying to sell the stills to even a mid range client.
I agree, Apple makes a really good product. However IMO recently they started "dumbing it down" as far as the support. I am also happy they keep firewire port. I think they have a really good software as well.
These are just my opinions, I am sure a lot of other users have different needs. I know Apple reads boards like this and this is my voice and my concerns as far as the range of support and features.
Respectfully Robert, you are out of line here. The d90 images will have no problem passing requirements at most stock agencies. It's far superior to the top of the line cameras from just a few years back. They are 12mp and definitely superior to the d200. It's the same chip as the d300. Getty's requirements are image size and quality based, However, in the end, like most of this industry it's the content that counts. I've published full page images in coffee table sized books, and several magazines taken with the far inferior d70, and have still images on Corbis and sold to Reuters, even though still photography is a small part of my income these days. Compact flash may even be retired over time (actually that's what my old d70 shot!). I'd be quite happy to have more universal standards here and elsewhere, and sdhc is looking very strong..

But perhaps more importantly, I already specified that VIDEO on the d90 was a factor - it has some flaws, but also some special abilities that complement the HM700 (low light, special lenses, intervalometer etc). Also I use stills in motion graphics or otherwise integrated into multimedia work. Video is my main business, and also what this forum is about. I can share SDHC cards with the HM700 and d90, read them quickly and conveniently with a compact full featured laptop. For HM700 users (that's where this post is), this is a good thing.

Also, I noted that it's the 13" that is the new model. This model drops $100, adds FW800 and the SDHC port and a long life battery. There is nothing not to like about this change (unless you don't trust the new battery technology).

For the 15" model, there may be some inconvenienced by this one form factor not being available with the express card, but it's hardly a big deal, and the improvements elsewhere are worth of consideration. May this be the worst thing that that happens to you this year.
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