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Old June 21st, 2009, 06:05 AM   #1
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True Color settings

I have recently the HM700 with the Fujinon TH16x5.5 BRMU until the canon lens is available. I know the lens is not optimal for this camera. I experience some wrong color pictures. I have yellow, red pictures. I can't get white into real white whatever I do. I used the manual AWB, presets, changed the black toe, knee levels changed the gamma settings and corrected the shadow levels

all these changes have corrected a little bit but is still not optimal. I don't want to go and change the color matrix without the proper tools.

Can anybody point me in the right directions to get true colors?

thanks in advance
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Old June 21st, 2009, 06:57 PM   #2
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First, this has nothing to do with your lens. This can produce accurate color.

We'll need to know more.
What type of light are you shooting in? With manual WB (most accurate) you have to set it for each change in lighting type.

What method are you using for manual WB? Some people don't know how to do this accurately. A white card filling the field of view, in the same lighting as your subject is required.

What method are you using to judge the color? Camera LCD should be reasonably accurate but isn't a true reference. Consumer HDTV's are less likely to be accurate.

Preset WB must be changed for the predominant lighting - in the menu there are settings for 3400 (tungsten) or 5600 (daylight). These are a quick way of locking WB to common single lighting sources. Also, say if you are shooting a sunset, a manual white balance will bleed the color out. Preset 5600 would purposely show the light as warm as it looks.

Achieving proper white Balance probably is your issue. Use a camera factory setting to make sure other changes you made haven't skewed the camera. White balance isn't that difficult to master, but it does take a little time to understand the underlying concept, as well as techniques to ensure accurate results quickly ion the field.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 06:46 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply Sean. I understand how WB works. I shot in daylight with a bit of sunshine. I try to get the same conditions between shots. I used the preset 5600K, the FAW and manual WB. They all produced a slightly off color pictures. I record flowers behind a white wall. The wall isn't white, its reddish sometimes yellowish.

My first reaction was indeed wb isn't correct. I did more test today and I'm pretty sure that there is something wrong with the unit. I contacted the dealer and I will bring the cam there so they do some testing as well.

Keep you updated
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 10:26 AM   #4
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I've had a sneak preview from a review that's being written by a Pro and he says there is a problem with greenish spike on the 5600K setting. He's suggesting setting it to 4300K for a somewhat warmer and more neutral look. He further suggests that JVC would have to rectify this in a firmware update.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 10:58 AM   #5
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Firmware-Update is possible, but the JVC-salesmen says that there will be soon no
firmware-update. Possible yes, but not now.

General I know the JVC-problems with white-balance, it`s not quite goog like other
companies.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 12:51 PM   #6
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Setting your colour temperature to 4300k in daylight will produce a colder looking picture not a warmer one. Especially in here in the UK where overcast daylight can be anything up to 8000k

If in doubt best to custom balance on a white card.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 01:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Howarth View Post
Setting your colour temperature to 4300k in daylight will produce a colder looking picture not a warmer one. Especially in here in the UK where overcast daylight can be anything up to 8000k
If in doubt best to custom balance on a white card.
Exactly. 4300 is a common warm look for tungsten lighting, or mixed lighting. But you can't preset it. The JVC WB presets are not to everyone's liking. Greenish is what the GY-HD series produced as well. Using a card has produced accurate results for me though.

Curious Thomas, so after you manually WB to your card, does the card itself look white on screen?

Of course many people these days are going to tweak color and look as a matter of course...
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 02:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adair View Post

Curious Thomas, so after you manually WB to your card, does the card itself look white on screen?
sean, unfortunately WB with card had the same results. I don't know what it is but can't make manual WB work. Tested it in many locations today under different conditions as well inside a office, which produced the best results actually.
The best results I get if I WB in shadow for clear skies, which means some 4300K or 5200K. So I think it's true what the "pro" suggested as Dave mentioned.

The dealer can't get it work as well. He never experienced this from other units he sold. He contacted JVC with this problem and "they are looking in to that"...... I think I got a Monday unit....

After reset the whole unit to factory standard I get the best results in FAW more or less natural colors. Didn't know JVC had a problem with WB. I worked with Canon and Sony No problems what so ever.

If I look at the different test shots on this side they all look good.
Does anyone else experience this problem as well?
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 03:35 PM   #9
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My question is whether the white card looks white on your camera. I still don't know how you are monitoring the color or . If it's the lcd, and you are watching this while you manually white balance, the screen should be pure white after the WB is done. Other things around you may not.

The white balance in shade will be "cooler" or a higher number than open daylight (5600).
4300K or 5200K are very different settings.
The camera will report the Kelvin number after a manual WB.
JVC doesn't have a "problem" with white balance. There are looks certain cameras have on preset WB when shooting in that specified light as set in the menu.

I don't hesitate using preset under those fixed lighting conditions - especially if there is predominantly colored light I want to represent as colored! If it's golden hour, I want that white wall to be warm colored. If I want it white, I manually white balance on the wall. (Then it will be white, even if the paint isn't exactly white!)

Nevertheless, Thomas, you likely do have a problem with your camera. If you approach this scientifically, you can eliminate doubt quickly.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 03:57 PM   #10
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At the end of this week should
my HM700 with Canon 14x arrive,
then I make some tests, interviews
(ceremony of the friendship-wall in Allersberg/Bavaria),
and a short eventfilm over an
12-hours-mountainbike-race in
Schnaittach.

Then I can make the tests with my
own cam.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 04:19 PM   #11
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Colour Temperature Chart
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 02:32 PM   #12
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weird.

weird to say the least... ...

Not sure why I'm even posting a reply since I'm sure this is all review to you and everyone, but just in case I'll pontificate, that and I'm at work killing a few minutes before lunch. (probably real reason)

just reread your more recent post, and if the dealer couldn't figure it out, it's either a bad unit or the dealer and you are missing something simple. I vote that the unit must have something twitchy going on, but if not here is my methodology for you or whom ever might be having issues. It's just the same old same old white balancing for 20 years, but maybe something is screwed up in the menu..... like all of the white balanced are menued to AWB? (bad but obvsiously adjustable)

1. Manual WB, don't use auto or presets on any camera except when absolutly necissary.. (almost never in my experience in 20 years)
2. Auto iris, put card in sun in front of lens, fill the frame, tilt the card so it is completly lit, but not reflecting (glaring) into the lens.
3. Hit manual white balance button, hold till it's done flashing and reads a number. QED.

if taping something in shadow, (and you don't want the cooloer look of shadow north light) then on #2 tilt the card so it's in shadow to liven up the white blance (reading the cooler light then it warms up the shadow light to make the blue cool light white and neutral....).

If it's still colored weird, it's either your camera, your white card or your HDTV/monitor settings. The JVC's are notoriously green in their AWB and presets, Sony was I think blue, and Panasonic has always been red. Manual White Balance on all are as good (though mixing brands even white balanced still carry different color gama curves) as your white balance card ($5.99 from a store).

Was that all obvious review? If so, check your monitor/HDTV. Also bring up your color bars from your menu and see how that looks on your monitor.
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 04:42 PM   #13
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Another interesting test for the white balance will be an expo-disk, many people say its the best way to improve white-balance.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 02:28 AM   #14
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Got the Canon lens yesterday. No more WB issues??!! Can you believe that?

It's true. Thanks for all your replies.
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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:57 AM   #15
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perhaps the white shading? If this is not set properly for the lens being used, there will be green or purple gradients at top or bottom of the frame.
See page 42 of the manual: "You need to adjust white shading when you change the lens....."

This is a very distinctive symptom though, since the color shifting occurs only in the top and/or bottom of the frame - very clear when monitoring an evenly lit white card.
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