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Old March 14th, 2011, 09:10 AM   #1
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HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't use the preset filter on the HM700.
The preset 3200K is to blue-ish and the 5600k filter far to yellow. Normally when I shoot outside I could use the 5600K(nd) filter and the white balance would be perfect. But with the HM700 I don't seem to get an accurate 5600K preset filter.

To demonstrate I decided to do a AWB outside and stored it on the 'B' switch. According to the camera the AWB was 5600K. Just like the preset filter.

Both screenshots are made indoor with 5600K, but the more green/yellow grab is made with the preset filter of the camera. Is there a way to change the color tint of just the preset from the camera, without changing the color tint of the AWB as well?
Attached Thumbnails
HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem-hm700-preset5600k.jpg   HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem-hm700-awb-5600k.jpg  

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Old March 14th, 2011, 02:00 PM   #2
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

Yes, I've noticed something like this too, not just outside, but in the studio under various conditions.

But I don't think it's exactly a problem with the preset values... rather it is that the white-balance feature does not accurately report the detected K value to the camera operator. I think it rounds to the nearest value, but not in increments of 100, more like 500 (3200, 3700, 4200, etc.), and there may be more to it than a liner 3K to 8K scale of "white".

But I've noticed (just a couple of weeks ago, in fact) that two different WB settings (on A and B) reporting as "3700K" gave noticeably different results in the viewfinder.

An important lesson from this is to take white balance readings frequently... even if you "know from experience" that you're in a 5600K environment, just because the camera says "5600K" on the viewfinder, doesn't mean it's actually attuned to your current lighting setup.

Oh, and as a feature request I would really love to be able to arbitrarily specify my own white balance value... Why just the two preset values? The camera has up/down buttons and menus, for goodness sake, let us dial in a number. That way, special effects and minor tweaks to the WB detection can be accomplished far more easily.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 06:49 PM   #3
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

I've also noticed that the 5600K preset is not accurate, it looks a little green to me. The 3200K preset seems pretty good to my eye, but I'd like to verify it with a vector scope.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 08:31 AM   #4
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

hi derran,

i discovered the same problem today (hm700e).
preset 5600k is greenish, white balance @ 5600k looks much more 'normal'.
i made the white balance in big building with a lot of glass. and the glass has a very light greenish tint.
what do you think; could it be that greenish glass compentates the greenish preset white?
or did you make you white balance outdoor?

best regards ralph
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:50 PM   #5
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

I got caught on a shoot a few year ago where I was outdoors, had done a white balance but then shot one scene under a tree without doing another white balance.
When I got back to the edit suite, I discovered that the person had gone very blue and color correction was extremely difficult :(

For that reason, I never use the 5600 preset outdoors as it's way too easy to get misled.
Sunlight can range anywhere from a low of around 2,000 (sunrise/sunset) to a high of 30,000.
My personal rule is quite simple.
Set up my scene, get a white balance and shoot.
If I change locations, even if it's in the same general area, I white balance again.
It only takes a moment and it saves what little hair I have left when I get into the edit suite.

Television Production: Color Temperature is a good article that goes into this in a lot more detail.
Colour Temperature Chart and Kelvin Color Temperatures are self-explanatory.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 03:25 PM   #6
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

mike, i agree upon that. it's better to white balance manually.
but don't you think it's strange that a 5600k-preset is more green than a manually made white balance @ 5600k?

i wonder if there's a 'deeper service menu' at the hm700 where the 5600k-preset kan be tweaked in terms of lowering the green value.
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Old March 17th, 2011, 11:17 AM   #7
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one with this problem. Must be something with the camera. I have the Fujinon 13x wide lens on the camera and thought it might had something to do with using a different lens then the 14x Canon.

Ralph, I did my white balance outside. Did you do the white balance with a card? Sometimes the white balance is a bit off and luckily you can see this before recording and do a second white balance. But I agree with everyone else, it's better to do a manually white balance if possible. The FAW is pretty good too I must say, but not preferable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Mooijekind View Post
what do you think; could it be that greenish glass compentates the greenish preset white?
or did you make you white balance outdoor?
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Old March 17th, 2011, 01:23 PM   #8
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Mooijekind View Post
mike, i agree upon that. it's better to white balance manually.
but don't you think it's strange that a 5600k-preset is more green than a manually made white balance @ 5600k?
One thing I've discovered over the years is that different manufacturers have different ideas about these presets.
For example, put a Sony up against a comparable JVC, set both to 3200 preset and I can almost guarantee that the two images will look different.

Quote:
i wonder if there's a 'deeper service menu' at the hm700 where the 5600k-preset kan be tweaked in terms of lowering the green value.
I pored through the main manual and didn't see anything other than adjusting the two memory mode settings.
My guess is that the service manual would tell you how to do it but that's a step best left to qualified technicians.
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Old March 17th, 2011, 09:19 PM   #9
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

White balancing is more than just where on the Red-Blue Continuum you are - it balances all three of Red, Green and Blue to find a point where all three are contributing equally to create white (colour addition model).
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Old March 19th, 2011, 05:56 PM   #10
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Re: HM700 (preset 5600K) white balance problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kujbida View Post
One thing I've discovered over the years is that different manufacturers have different ideas about these presets.
For example, put a Sony up against a comparable JVC, set both to 3200 preset and I can almost guarantee that the two images will look different.
mike i understand what you're saying, but how do you explain the greenish picture when you keep in mind that there are two different pictures made at the same color temperature (one at 5600k preset and one at 5600k manual white balance)?

does it mean that the preset is not comparable with reality?

Last edited by Ralph Mooijekind; March 19th, 2011 at 06:05 PM. Reason: bad reading of previous post
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