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Old July 1st, 2012, 08:53 AM   #1
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A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Hello,

I am posting here as I know Craig Yanagi often visits this forum and having community input regarding my post is always healthy.

This post is about JVC's upcoming line of 600 series cameras. Upon reading about these cameras around NAB, I was pleasantly surprised about some of the specifications of these models. I am posting to ask the possibility to take the series a bit further.

As an owner/operator, it seems I am always looking at cameras and seeing a fatal flaw or two that keeps my enthusiasm down. There is no perfect camera, but that does not change the annoyance.

This is pure individual input from me and my opinions from a video (not cinema) usage point of view.

I would like to see another step up from the two 600 series models to make a fixed lens, small form shoulder mount version with the 50mbps 4:2:2 codec.

1) Form factor - I like to have one camera that is a shoulder mount. The 5.5 pound handicam style of camera is just too heavy to handhold. These are tripod bound cameras outside of small bursts. JVC's small shoulder mount design has always caught my attention but the camera has left me wanting more (mainly with light sensitivity). This form factor with the improved f11 @ 2000 lux chipset would be an event camera to dream of.

2) Fixed Lens - So often shoulder mount equals interchangeable lenses. This does not have to be the case. The focal range of the 600 series eliminates the need to ever change a lens. So it would make sense to use the same approach on a shoulder mount design.

3) Pro Servo Motors/Zoom Control - Since JVC has partnered with Fujinon, it would grand if this fixed lens could have a true servo motors and the option to use a broadcast zoom controller. As a user of a broadcast lens for many years, these pro zoom controllers allow me to be artistic with my camera movements way more so than with a LANC controller.

4) 50mbps 4:2:2 Codec - As a forum member, I have been reading the back and fourth over codecs and bitrates everywhere. Sure in the end all are not too bad, but more information is more information. In this age when storage and memory speed are not a constraint, why not include the option? This is a big point to me as I believe it speaks to the longevity of the camera's life expectancy. The march forward to better recording will always continue. In my experience, the higher bitrates give you more options and for "video" people who are often in live situations, this is a good thing...

5) Handicam Batteries - The use of affordable batteries on the shoulder mount would be appreciated!

6) Color Matrix - I have not used a JVC camera since the DV days so I do not know what comes standard but I really respect a camera manufacturer that gives the user tons of image control in the menu. Especially with color correction.

I realize this post is quite myopic and self centered, but I figured I would let my voice be heard. As an owner/operator, I have a choice between Panasonic, Sony, Canon or JVC. To be honest, JVC has not been on my radar until I read about the 600 series. An upper end model that matches the other two would be a great competitor to the Panasonic HPX-370/HPX-250 duo, and the Sony EX series.

Thanks for your participation here and I would love to hear your impressions and the possibility, either on this post or privately.

Tim Polster
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Old July 4th, 2012, 11:44 AM   #2
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re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

I know Craig heard many of these ideas at NAB as I myself brought some of them up as we sat and chatted for hours at an industry event on the Monday night.

I too am a fan of shoulder cams (and own 2 GY-HD200UBs) but I'm starting to think that MAY be "passing us by"... much to my dismay... so many new shooters have never used one and entered the industry on dSLRs now so they have embraced lousy ergonomics for the sake of cost (and weight) savings.

I hope I'm wrong...

PS. The cameras are quite interesting up close and personal... they were assembled only days before and hand carried from Japan so I'll reserve my one or two niggles until I see a production version...
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Old July 4th, 2012, 01:43 PM   #3
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re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Lee Daniel, DP of such classic films as SLACKER, DAZED AND CONFUSED, BEFORE SUNSET, walked out of our office with a GY-HM790 and a HZ-CA13U 1/3 - PL adapter to put his SUPER 16 lenses on the camera yesterday.

Lee Daniel - IMDb

GY-HM600 has 1080 chips and the 790 does not. You can see this by noting the GY-HM600 is advertised as such and the GY-HM790 never was.

JVC Professional Features page

GY-HM600 has a fixed lens. GY-HM790 does not. So. We have to wait for a supposed large sensor non-fixed lens camera from JVC instead of getting a GY-HM890, perhaps (I just made this up), which could look just like the GY-HM790, but with the new chips? 1/2" chip GY-HMQ10 fixed lens 4K that started shipping April 2012 covers new territory, but not for this conversation.

We know the majority of the team that made "A Verse Before Dying" on the Panasonic AG-AF100 before it was commercially available. We know a couple DPs as well. How about, Craig, you ship us that supposed large sensor non-fixed lens camera and we'll whip something together. Behind the scenes as well. We're a full JVC dealer. We're good for it.


Respectfully,
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Old July 4th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #4
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re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
I would like to see another step up from the two 600 series models to make a fixed lens, small form shoulder mount version with the 50mbps 4:2:2 codec.

1) Form factor - I like to have one camera that is a shoulder mount. The 5.5 pound handicam style of camera is just too heavy to handhold. These are tripod bound cameras outside of small bursts. JVC's small shoulder mount design has always caught my attention ...........
I agree 100% with everything you say in the first post Tim. Absolutely spot on.

The one way in which JVC have undeniably been better than their competitors at this price/size/weight point has been ergonomics. Maybe the 600 series are a step up technically - the general concensus is they are a big step backwards ergonomically. What are JVC thinking about?

And yes again to the point about codecs. It shouldn't be any more difficult or expensve to put the 50Mbs codec into such a camera than the 35Mbs - Canon have proved that. It's a mute point how much difference it makes for a lot of users, granted, but it enables any user to say "my camera has a fully approved for broadcast codec". If Cano can do it, why can't JVC? (Or Sony for that matter?)
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Old July 4th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #5
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re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Thanks David. I realise I am probably shouting into the abyss but I at least wanted my hopes for a great camera to be known.

To Shaun: Thanks for your input. It is shame the form factor is looked upon as "old school" Effective is effective in my book!

To Phillip: interesting but I am hoping for an event camera, not a SDOF cinema camera! :)

Last edited by Tim Polster; July 5th, 2012 at 10:08 AM.
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Old July 5th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #6
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
(Or Sony for that matter?)
The new XDCamEX PMW100 does record 50mbps. But of course, it is a single chip camera...
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Old November 4th, 2012, 11:17 PM   #7
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Its funny that they would slap ENG on the camera did they even talk to a news shooter. you can only hold a camera like that steady for a short period of time off the shoulder. If you have any kind of extended MOS interview it will be shaky and painful, I have AG-hmc 150s which I am about to replace I love this camera except I just cant get another hand held camera. At least make some kind of optional shoulder mount for it. Most news guys use Anton/Bauer there is no way to mount any anton/bauer stuff on this thing.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #8
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

The new HM 600 series is by far the most interesting camcorder for me this year. I haven`t tried one but specifications wise, it seems really, really good.

I hope JVC during 2013 will bring out an updated shoulder mounted camera, an HM800/ 850 maybe? If they do I am in the market for one.

This year has been frustrating for me, as I sold both my shoulder cams to invest in 2 EX1Rs. Good cameras, that work great indoors shooting live events. But outdoors in the sun/ snow/ rain, shooting with a small viewfinder and cumbersome raincover with bits and pieces all over the place, extra sunhood for my LCD- screen, hard to get to buttons etc, I sure do miss a shoulder mounted camera with a proper viewfinder.

Camcorder design these days are.....well...odd. I have been wanting a rig for my FS100 camera for a long time now, but adding things up, it is quite expensive. I feel many of the new today cameras need a rig to work ( for me anyway).

JVC is in my opinion the one manufacturer to get it right.

Oh, and I also hope JVC will bring a Super 35 camera to the market soon. XDCam EX- codec and Pro Res would be fine by me.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #9
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Completely agree, a HM800 would be the perfect ENG camera for me. The specs and features of the HM600 in the body of a HM750 for 5k would be ideal, I'd probably buy two!

Sadly I probably wont be able to wait until NAB to hold off on purchasing a camera so will probably have to look elsewhere at least for one of the cameras.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 03:39 AM   #10
 
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Indeed it is about time JVC did catch up to offer us 4:2:2 and 50bps which is slowly becoming the standard for these types of camera of which Canon and Sony have now held for several years.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:07 AM   #11
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Johnson View Post
Its funny that they would slap ENG on the camera did they even talk to a news shooter. you can only hold a camera like that steady for a short period of time off the shoulder.
Sadly, more and more markets are going to the Video Journalist model, forgoing the camera operator and journalist team for an "all-in-one", which is ALWAYS a journalist, who may or may not know a THING about cameras when they get assigned... so the form factor of this series of camera, again sadly, IS the "ideal" for a lot of newsrooms...
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:31 AM   #12
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

I am considering an HM600 and an HM750, they should work great together. However, uncertain what NAB will bring in terms of a new shoulder mounted camera from JVC. They would have to change their entire range of HM710/ 750/ 790 line up. In some respects these cameras are too "new" to be replaced so soon. Hope I am wrong, though. I wonder if a firmware update would be possible to enhance the sensitivity of the HM700 series?

I agree with Shaun, that the current formfactor of a news camera is the HM600/ EX1R/HPX250 camcorders, there hasn`t been much development of proper shoulder cameras recently other than those from JVC.

It seems everybody is shooting stuff either up people`s noses or out of focus shots with DSLRs on documentaries these days.

I consider my self to be a pro-amateur, what I strive to get right is white balance and focus, then exposure and composition. Not alwyas easy to achieve with the current formfactor of the aforementioned cameras.

I currently own two EX1Rs, an FS100, an NX70 and a Z5. All Sony cameras. As I own the JVC PL- adapter I am considering selling all cameras except the EX1Rs and replace them with an HM750, a CP2 35 mm lens and a Fujinon XT20SX4.7BRM-K1 1/3” 20 x Zoom Lens For GY-HM750/790. Perhaps this would finally give me the best of both worlds. And I should be able to finance it with the sell of the other
cameras.

Last edited by Svein Rune Skilnand; January 3rd, 2013 at 04:18 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 03:27 AM   #13
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
Sadly, more and more markets are going to the Video Journalist model, forgoing the camera operator and journalist team for an "all-in-one", which is ALWAYS a journalist, who may or may not know a THING about cameras when they get assigned... so the form factor of this series of camera, again sadly, IS the "ideal" for a lot of newsrooms...
In my city, there's a local affiliate that hires journalism grads that know nothing about cameras other than to ask where the "auto" button is :(
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 11:04 AM   #14
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

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Originally Posted by Mike Kujbida View Post
In my city, there's a local affiliate that hires journalism grads that know nothing about cameras other than to ask where the "auto" button is :(
LOL, so I guess the main feature the HM600 needs to have for news reporting is a good auto button.

For me, I would ask most for item 4 of the original post: 1080i60 50mbps 4:2:2 color. Hopefully this feature could be added as a zero cost firmware upgrade.

Last edited by Eric Olson; January 3rd, 2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 03:36 AM   #15
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Re: A Message for JVC (RE: HM600 series)

I also find this camera to be of interest. I'd probably spring but
for the lack of 50mb. Given the op put this wish list
out over 6 months ago and no apparent response from JVC, I won't be holding
my breath that there will be one. Perhaps that is the response. Too bad.
While it is a much older camera, the price for the Canon XF300 has dropped
substantially, at least at B&H
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