Door #1, door #2 or door #3? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > JVC ProHD & MPEG2 Camera Systems > JVC GY-HM 70/100/150 Series Camera Systems

JVC GY-HM 70/100/150 Series Camera Systems
GY-HM70, HM100, HM150 recording AVCHD MP4 & QuickTime .MOV to SDHC cards.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 30th, 2009, 04:27 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA and Roma, Italia
Posts: 155
Door #1, door #2 or door #3?

This past week I was shooting the premiere of "Surrogates" for the Syfy Channel, and on my way there I borrowed a demo GY HM100 to test in a real world "run & gun" situation.

I just put up the results from that event for the users of DVInfo Net.

I used three cams total, one of my JVC 200B's (they did not have a 700 I could borrow, and I had already sold both of my 700's, so my 200B had to do), a GY HM100, and another cam (see the Web page for the full disclosure, but no fair peeking first!).

One thing is for sure, the GY HM100 is not very hand hold friendly!

The results (Flash HD videos) are here: JVC
__________________
Enzo Giobbé
www.enzogiobbe.com
Enzo Giobbé is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 05:10 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Larkspur, CA
Posts: 378
Very interesting Enzo,

I did the test and found the 1st two pretty much the same. C cam definitely registered as "harsh" in my brain but that's because I'm in the biz and was looking for differences.

When I saw the answers I was surprised! Good stuff.

Off topic- looks like you and both have had a lot of JVC gear!
Justin Ferar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 05:18 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Schwabach (Germany - Bavaria)
Posts: 199
I see your three videos, all with visible noise, can it be that my HM700 looks better with
less noise.

Camera A - HD200
Camera B - HM100
Camera C - another hand-held cam - but not so sharp - like a cheap customer cam

Last edited by Eric Deyerler; September 30th, 2009 at 05:23 PM. Reason: solution
Eric Deyerler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 05:24 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Larkspur, CA
Posts: 378
The noise is due to the web compression- is that what you are referring too?
Justin Ferar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 05:26 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Larkspur, CA
Posts: 378
Eric,

You can see the answer by clicking "are" in the text. Easy to miss if you don't roll over it.
Justin Ferar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 05:35 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Schwabach (Germany - Bavaria)
Posts: 199
- It can be that the noise is the compression (like MPG2-noise)

- ok I see it - I've thought it's a little test for the dvinfo.net-users.

- I think you borowed the HM100 and not the GY-HD100.
Eric Deyerler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2009, 09:10 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA and Roma, Italia
Posts: 155
The noise, and...

Yes, the noise is from the Flash compression.

All three clips are camera original direct to Flash processing (no post tweaks). I did not even import them into an editing program. The trims were made in the Adobe Flash program itself.

On my 65" LCD calibrated monitor, the Cam A clip has no noise. The Cam B clip has some mosquito noise in the background blacks. Also, it does not render tone graduations as well as Cam A, and is not quite as sharp. Cam C looked the best to my wife (as such cams usually do to non-pros :). It has lots of pop and nice vibrant colors. The Cam C footage could easily be fixed in post and go to broadcast. Cams A and B could go right to broadcast as is (if so needed).

And, I fixed both the camera model names ("HM", not "HD"), and made the hotlinks a different color when they are rolled over. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Yes, I do have a lot of JVC cams. I have been a big JVC booster since the ground breaking GY HD100 first appeared and have been responsible for thousands upon thousands of those cams being sold (to the broadcast nets mostly).

DVInfo Net has (in my opinion) also been largely responsible for the success of the Pro HD line of cameras. If it wasn't for this board, and the many, many posters who shared their experiences, scene and picture files, great tips and caveats about the Pro HD cameras. I doubt that JVC would have seen the success (and respect) they enjoy today.

But, it's now five years later, and I am still waiting for that "new" cutting edge JVC camera that should have shipped by now.

"Yes, but it writes to SDHC" can only get JVC so far. It's way past time for JVC to take the lead again. I know there is something else coming down the line, but it may be a case of too little, too late (the RED Scarlet is getting closer and closer to being a production reality), and that would truly be a shame, as JVC does know how to produce an excellent professional HD cam.

The HM100 certainly isn't it, and the HM700A is close, but still not quite there yet.

Oops, sorry, end of editorial rant.
__________________
Enzo Giobbé
www.enzogiobbe.com

Last edited by Enzo Giobbé; October 1st, 2009 at 11:50 AM. Reason: text
Enzo Giobbé is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2009, 02:28 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Centreville Va
Posts: 1,828
It would be cool if JVC could be the first to offer an affordable 3x2/3" chip camera, even if it's CMOS. Just dreaming.....
__________________
Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!
Joe Carney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2009, 12:57 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA and Roma, Italia
Posts: 155
RED day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carney View Post
It would be cool if JVC could be the first to offer an affordable 3x2/3" chip camera, even if it's CMOS. Just dreaming.....
Joe, JVC was actually working on a bigger 3 chip HD camera when the success of the original HD100 series put that on the back burner, and finally, that project was discarded. Now, they are working on something else (as all the big camera manufacturers are wont to do).

Problem is, that by the time the new cam actually sees the light of production, RED will have released the RED Scarlet 2/3" Mysterium-X (8x fixed lens) camera at a price point of about $4K.

When that happens, RED will (for all practical purposes, and in my opinion), own the under $10K digital cam market. If you absolutely need interchangeable lenses, the RED Scarlet 2/3" Cinema should be even cheaper (with no lens).

Yes, RED is that good. When I finally had a chance to acquire a used RED One to use on my Steadicam Pro II rig, I sold the Sony 950 CineAlta I was using immediately after my first gig using the RED.

It appears that JVC, Sony, Panasonic, etc. are all asleep at the wheel.
__________________
Enzo Giobbé
www.enzogiobbe.com
Enzo Giobbé is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2009, 01:16 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: california North and South
Posts: 635
Enzo, you make a valid point about the Red/Scarlet. Of the thre big companies, I only see JVC being the one that would be willing to make something like the Red/Scarlet at that price range. Sony and Panasonic have too much invested in the $40k-90k cameras to do something like the Red. Also I haven't looked but I hear good things about Arri's digital camera as well as Panaflex cameras, but those are pretty expensive. But we are reaching a time when the smaller companies (Such as Red) can leap frog the big names and pull it off.
Alex Humphrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2009, 01:50 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Larkspur, CA
Posts: 378
Scarlet used to have an expected release date of summer 09. There was a previous release date before that too- until the 5d came out and they went back to the drawing board. Finally they just got rid of the expected release date from the site. Bummer. I just hope it comes out sooner than later because I've been putting off my 5d purchase since it came out.

Just ranting.
Justin Ferar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2009, 02:10 PM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA and Roma, Italia
Posts: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Humphrey View Post
Enzo, you make a valid point about the Red/Scarlet. Of the thre big companies, I only see JVC being the one that would be willing to make something like the Red/Scarlet at that price range. Sony and Panasonic have too much invested in the $40k-90k cameras to do something like the Red. Also I haven't looked but I hear good things about Arri's digital camera as well as Panaflex cameras, but those are pretty expensive. But we are reaching a time when the smaller companies (Such as Red) can leap frog the big names and pull it off.
Alex, yes you are right. JVC could, but they won't.

JVC has just about conceded that it's too late in the game now to develop a valid competitor to the RED Scarlet and get it into production in time.

I would love to see JVC come out with a Red Scarlet spec cam using the same shoulder cam ergonomics they use in the HD100 to HM700 series. The ergonomics of the series is the only thing that keeps me using (and recommending) the JVC line for some of the work I do.

But, I would rather that RED developed a Scarlet / RED One add-on that duplicates the JVC shoulder rest design (their "U-bolt" shoulder rest add-on is a bit clumsy :)

Sony (which supplies the guts of the Panavision Genesis), has pretty much decided to go after the broadcast market, and I don't have any idea what Panasonic is up to.

The Genesis is not for sale, and rents (with a full compliment of accessories and lenses), for about $10K or more a week. For whatever reason, Panavision just purchased 15 more cameras from Sony (spending $35M), and the last time I checked, were also working on their own digi cam design. Panavision is not doing too well these day, all due the RED One.

The Arri D-21 is very, very pricey, but the rental is fairly cheap these days. The local rental houses tell me that the only time the Arri goes out is when the RED is not available.

See this thread for some of the comparisons between the cams you mentioned: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jvc-gy-h...700-100-a.html
__________________
Enzo Giobbé
www.enzogiobbe.com
Enzo Giobbé is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2009, 02:17 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cornwall UK
Posts: 793
Deleted, wrong thread
__________________
Colin
Colin Rowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2009, 02:59 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo Giobbé View Post
Problem is, that by the time the new cam actually sees the light of production, RED will have released the RED Scarlet 2/3" Mysterium-X (8x fixed lens) camera at a price point of about $4K.

When that happens, RED will (for all practical purposes, and in my opinion), own the under $10K digital cam market. If you absolutely need interchangeable lenses, the RED Scarlet 2/3" Cinema should be even cheaper (with no lens).

Yes, RED is that good. When I finally had a chance to acquire a used RED One to use on my Steadicam Pro II rig, I sold the Sony 950 CineAlta I was using immediately after my first gig using the RED.
I think for under 10K Sony EX1 or EX3 are going to be hard to beat, even by RED. Brand new unit retails for $6100 at B&H- as the matter of fact these cams are so durable and so good they usually go for about 5K used. Maybe the ergonomics of the camera aren't ideal, but they are way more portable then HM700 (or any other shoulder mount), they produce outstanding picture and the editing workflow is well established. I don't know how editing with Redcode42 will be done in FCP, but for me it would be a major concern.
Robert Rogoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2009, 03:35 PM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA and Roma, Italia
Posts: 155
RED Day 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Rogoz View Post
I think for under 10K Sony EX1 or EX3 are going to be hard to beat, even by RED. Brand new unit retails for $6100 at B&H- as the matter of fact these cams are so durable and so good they usually go for about 5K used. Maybe the ergonomics of the camera aren't ideal, but they are way more portable then HM700 (or any other shoulder mount), they produce outstanding picture and the editing workflow is well established. I don't know how editing with Redcode42 will be done in FCP, but for me it would be a major concern.
Robert, yes, I was very impressed by the EX3, but for what I need, the ergonomics are indeed terrible.

I need a good shoulder cam for the network outlets I shoot for, and one that is light, easy to transport and handle, and will write to a removable a hard drive (with some type of backup for archiving purposes).

The JVC HD200B fits those requirements perfectly. It's shoulder cam ergonomics are exactly what's most important to me, plus with its quick release plate, I can take it from shoulder to tripod in a few seconds if need be. I could not use a EX cam in those type of shooting situations (and I have strong arms).

For my Steadicam, Movie, and Net TV work, I use the RED One, For promos / tests, and minuscule budget movies, I use a dedicated HD200B specially modified just for digital cinematography.

REDCode loves FCP. The RED company uses FCP. It takes a high end Mac to transcode the footage in a reasonable amount of time, but the results are stunning.
__________________
Enzo Giobbé
www.enzogiobbe.com

Last edited by Enzo Giobbé; October 2nd, 2009 at 03:36 PM. Reason: text
Enzo Giobbé is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > JVC ProHD & MPEG2 Camera Systems > JVC GY-HM 70/100/150 Series Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:25 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network