You can pan but slowly, very slowly! at DVinfo.net

Fabrice Hoss · May 24th, 2011, 08:50 PM

Hello everyone,

I have a problem with some gy hm 100 footage and I was wondering if a solution can be found.
Here is an exemple of my problem, to be watched full screen :

YouTube - ‪exemple b roll with default gy hm 100‬&rlm;

In this footage for exemple, there is a "comb-flickering effect" (I don't know exactly how to call it)... Yes, the pan is pooly fast and the result is not ok for broadcast!

My dealer says : Oh yes, that's the way it is with hd, you can't pan that fast... you will always get this effect...
What can I do about it?

My hm 100 version is 1.07.

Thanks,
Fabrice

Andy Urtusuastegui · May 24th, 2011, 11:14 PM

What settings did you have the camera set to?
Was it 1080 30p?

Don Bloom · May 25th, 2011, 04:50 AM

I suggest you find a different dealer.
This is not a situation of "always have that with HD"...If that were the reason NOTHING would be shot on HD, not sports, not commericals, not anything. If what your dealer said were true then I couldn't run an HD camera to cover car races with cars running as fast as 175mph down the backstretch and thru the turn where I have to pan thru with the cars and as long as I'm in focus the image is sharp as a tack, they couldn't cover the NBA finals going on now...and while your camera and the camera I used to cover NASCAR races are just a tad different in every aspect imagineable they are both HD cameras and do the same job.
I would say the problem you're having is in the camera settings, operation of the camera or some sort of pilot error.
Whatever it is it isn't that HD always does that.

Fabrice Hoss · May 25th, 2011, 08:39 AM

I shoot 1920/1080 50i
Cheers,
Fabrice

Finnur Bardarson · May 26th, 2011, 06:42 AM

The combs you are talking about is interlace issue. Try to de interlace the film and see if it looks better. (A little tip about pan: But a rubber band around the tripod handle and pull very slowly.)

Alex Humphrey · July 24th, 2011, 10:50 PM

interlacing. yup. shoot progressive. Don't shoot 30p. DVD and Blu Ray don't support 30p no matter what anyone says. 60i and 24p for US and 50i and 25p for Pal & Secam. 24p goes easily into NTSC video as well as 25p for Pal & Secam for world wide distribution. No flicker on any DVD or Blu Ray player anywhere in the world or worse the choppy 30p to 24p quick conversion. Just things to think about before you next big project.

George Kilroy · July 29th, 2011, 08:29 AM

Hi Alex, I'm not quite sure I follow what you've said there. You say don't shoot intertlace but then say that that 50i or 25p is okay for PAL DVD. My experience has been that footage shot as 1080 25P and kept Progressive right through to making a Progressive DVD does flicker on some PAL DVDs whereas DVDs made with interlaced lower field first don't flicker.

I've had this conversation in other areas and even though I've been ridiculed for saying this it is my experience.

Chris Harding · July 30th, 2011, 09:42 PM

George and I have discussed this topic in detail..probably more than once too.

Yes you can SHOOT and EDIT in progressive... however especially in PAL countries were our lower frame rate is 25P and not 30P you will get a little stutter on pans unless you up the shutter speed... normally on 25P I have no issues as long as I'm in manual and the shutter speed is at least 1/100th or higher!!

The secret is in the rendering !! Shoot progressive, edit progressive BUT render your MPEG2 SD file ready for DVD authoring as either 720x576, 16:9, with lower field first interlacing or for NTSC 720 x 480

The TV will handle the interlacing correctly and you will have no jitter. If you shoot in 1080i remember it's interlaced and has it's Upper field first!! It's best to let your NLE de-interlace it to progressive and then render it back to SD interlaced and you will have no issues.

When shooting, if the image stutters while panning in 25P or 30P then just lift the shutter speed!!

Chris

Joachim Claus · August 1st, 2011, 01:09 AM

Chris,

I think PAL-standard defines lower field first only for DV not for MPEG. In MPEG the field order is upper field first in PAL, if I remember correctly.

Joachim

Chris Harding · August 3rd, 2011, 09:23 PM

I not too sure about domestic MPEG2 cameras but yes, all HDV and AVCHD are Upper Field first ..we were essentially discussing the problems with HD to SD so that would almost always be Upper to Lower if you are shooting interlaced. However DVD VOB files almost always are lower field first as that's what the DVD player expects.

Chris

Ed Szarleta · August 4th, 2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabrice Hoss

I shoot 1920/1080 50i
Cheers,
Fabrice

Same here.

May 24th, 2011, 08:50 PM	#1
Fabrice Hoss New Boot Join Date: May 2011 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 10	You can pan but slowly, very slowly! Hello everyone, I have a problem with some gy hm 100 footage and I was wondering if a solution can be found. Here is an exemple of my problem, to be watched full screen : YouTube - ‪exemple b roll with default gy hm 100‬&rlm; In this footage for exemple, there is a "comb-flickering effect" (I don't know exactly how to call it)... Yes, the pan is pooly fast and the result is not ok for broadcast! My dealer says : Oh yes, that's the way it is with hd, you can't pan that fast... you will always get this effect... What can I do about it? My hm 100 version is 1.07. Thanks, Fabrice

May 24th, 2011, 11:14 PM	#2
Andy Urtusuastegui Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Foothill Ranch, CA Posts: 166	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! What settings did you have the camera set to? Was it 1080 30p?

May 25th, 2011, 04:50 AM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! I suggest you find a different dealer. This is not a situation of "always have that with HD"...If that were the reason NOTHING would be shot on HD, not sports, not commericals, not anything. If what your dealer said were true then I couldn't run an HD camera to cover car races with cars running as fast as 175mph down the backstretch and thru the turn where I have to pan thru with the cars and as long as I'm in focus the image is sharp as a tack, they couldn't cover the NBA finals going on now...and while your camera and the camera I used to cover NASCAR races are just a tad different in every aspect imagineable they are both HD cameras and do the same job. I would say the problem you're having is in the camera settings, operation of the camera or some sort of pilot error. Whatever it is it isn't that HD always does that. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

May 25th, 2011, 08:39 AM	#4
Fabrice Hoss New Boot Join Date: May 2011 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 10	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! I shoot 1920/1080 50i Cheers, Fabrice

May 26th, 2011, 06:42 AM	#5
Finnur Bardarson New Boot Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Reykjavik Iceland Posts: 23	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! The combs you are talking about is interlace issue. Try to de interlace the film and see if it looks better. (A little tip about pan: But a rubber band around the tripod handle and pull very slowly.)

July 24th, 2011, 10:50 PM	#6
Alex Humphrey Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: california North and South Posts: 642	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! interlacing. yup. shoot progressive. Don't shoot 30p. DVD and Blu Ray don't support 30p no matter what anyone says. 60i and 24p for US and 50i and 25p for Pal & Secam. 24p goes easily into NTSC video as well as 25p for Pal & Secam for world wide distribution. No flicker on any DVD or Blu Ray player anywhere in the world or worse the choppy 30p to 24p quick conversion. Just things to think about before you next big project.

July 29th, 2011, 08:29 AM	#7
George Kilroy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 699	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! Hi Alex, I'm not quite sure I follow what you've said there. You say don't shoot intertlace but then say that that 50i or 25p is okay for PAL DVD. My experience has been that footage shot as 1080 25P and kept Progressive right through to making a Progressive DVD does flicker on some PAL DVDs whereas DVDs made with interlaced lower field first don't flicker. I've had this conversation in other areas and even though I've been ridiculed for saying this it is my experience.

July 30th, 2011, 09:42 PM	#8
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! George and I have discussed this topic in detail..probably more than once too. Yes you can SHOOT and EDIT in progressive... however especially in PAL countries were our lower frame rate is 25P and not 30P you will get a little stutter on pans unless you up the shutter speed... normally on 25P I have no issues as long as I'm in manual and the shutter speed is at least 1/100th or higher!! The secret is in the rendering !! Shoot progressive, edit progressive BUT render your MPEG2 SD file ready for DVD authoring as either 720x576, 16:9, with lower field first interlacing or for NTSC 720 x 480 The TV will handle the interlacing correctly and you will have no jitter. If you shoot in 1080i remember it's interlaced and has it's Upper field first!! It's best to let your NLE de-interlace it to progressive and then render it back to SD interlaced and you will have no issues. When shooting, if the image stutters while panning in 25P or 30P then just lift the shutter speed!! Chris

August 1st, 2011, 01:09 AM	#9
Joachim Claus Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany Posts: 132	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! Chris, I think PAL-standard defines lower field first only for DV not for MPEG. In MPEG the field order is upper field first in PAL, if I remember correctly. Joachim

August 3rd, 2011, 09:23 PM	#10
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: You can pan but slowly, very slowly! I not too sure about domestic MPEG2 cameras but yes, all HDV and AVCHD are Upper Field first ..we were essentially discussing the problems with HD to SD so that would almost always be Upper to Lower if you are shooting interlaced. However DVD VOB files almost always are lower field first as that's what the DVD player expects. Chris