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Old June 16th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #16
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Steve - I've got a few requests too.

First, if it isn't too difficult, could the clips be annotated with any information about the camera settings? The handheld, that is, not tripod, is pretty self evident :-) but some of the other settings would be interesting to know when we're viewing the clips. I can't say which settings because it would depend on what one is trying to show. Having it in the audio works too as at one point you said something like "this is with optical zoom".

For myself, I don't need the "sports" capability with 600 f/s but I might be able to use something a little faster than ~ standard. For example, I want to take some video from a boat and the wave action is a real moving target. Not that I want detail of the waves but that I don't want a lousy rendition of them, either.

This is from a couple weeks ago. Just had the boat out for the first time getting it's bottom painted and the topside waxed. My return trip was based on the poor wind forecast so I expected a motorboat show but this is what happened. The silver tarp is over our inflatable dingy as it is kept over the winter. Weather forecast was 8 to 12 knots and actual was 28 knots over the deck (but not in this clip as that came a little afterward while I had to hand-steer because the autopilot couldn't maintain course). The second clip was after the wind had moderated.
Taken with my iPhone (see, they're good in certain situations. Wouldn't want to get my camera splattered with salt water!)

The above is not necessarily an example of what I want to film, although it could be. Mostly I'm looking for benign conditions (not white knuckle) that involve a range of lighting from severe blue sky to overcast and, of course, our normal rain. Lighting conditions from before sunrise to noon and "indoor" (for example, down below in the cabin). The deck is white gelcoat (~ nearly like snow), with shadows, waves with whitecaps, dark water. Essentially, the video conditions are absolutely extreme and I haven't even touched on the audio as that's a whole new story.

The viewfinder on the PX100 is of interested because I'm going to be taking the video from a moving deck and most likely holding on with one hand while holding the camera in another. In normal to bright light the flip-out viewfinder on my HD7 is hard to see and using the eye-level viewfinder that I thought would be good is like asking to go overboard because it is very easy to lose your balance. The flip-out one, on the other hand, works good in that regard - just that it is hard to see!

The light-weight aspect is very nice because I fly a lot and with the luggage/carry-on allowances (restraints) the light weight is good.

Cinematic effect: Would the f/1.2 PX100 lens be good for that? Speaking of lens, who is the prime manufacturer?

This PX100 appears to be a good bang for the buck.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 05:04 PM   #17
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

I shot some audio, but first I'm trying to get 60p via the internet.

Putting 1920x1080p60 into a 1280x720p60 project yields a 720p60 movie -- which can go to a BD. The downscale looks VERY good.

Also found exporting to uncompressed 10-bit 422 yields a movie without noise.

Now trying to upload to Vimeo. Then I'll try Utube.

Then I'll try to answer your questions.

UPDATE: Neither service supports 60p for free. Only 24p and 30p. YouTube re-encodes using H.264 but the audio is only 44.1kHz. Vimeo re-encodes using AVC and the audio is correct at 48kHz. But their re-encode data rates are terribly low at about 3Mbps.

Interestingly, both Utube and Vimeo recommend uploading using 30Mbps to 50Mbps for HD.

A short 720p30 video: "http://vimeo.com/68498600" AND "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykw6M5waixY"
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Old June 17th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #18
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

JVC GC-PX100 shooting 1080p60 at 35Mbps with 96kHz LPCM 16-bit audio in a MOV wrapper. During import into FCP X 96 is converted to 48kHz.

FCP X Share via a defined two Compressor presets. One downscales 1080p to 720p and reduces 60p to 30p. The video is encoded as H.264 at 35Mbps while the audio is 48kHz 320kbps ACC. Then the file is uploaded to YouTube. Plays at maximum 720p30.

The other takes 1080p and reduces 60p to 30p. The video is encoded as H.264 at 50Mbps while the audio is 48kHz 320kbps ACC. Then the file is uploaded to YouTube. Plays at maximum 1080p30.

This is alternative to simply Sharing to YouTube and/or Vimeo. This easier procedure creates only a 10Mbps 720p30 encode. A 1080p30 alternative is available.

Blu-ray is created directly from FCP X via a Share.

For playing on a computer, a Share via a 8-bit 422 uncompressed provides the cleanest video with 48kHz PCM audio. This will provide 1080p60 video.

More videos coming.

PS: Turns-out the loss of quality as frame rate is increased really begins at 300fps. I'm going to retry 120fps and 240fps.
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; June 18th, 2013 at 11:50 AM.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 01:40 AM   #19
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nantz View Post
I can't say which settings because it would depend on what one is trying to show.
I've been thinking about settings after the review gave the PX100 bad marks for its menu system. The primary set-up is done once -- I only shoot 1080p60 MOV.

There are manual controls for selecting PASMU. In S, another knob dials in a shutter speed 1/60th. (I use a 64X ND filter in bright light.) This enables the camera to set the aperture.

Alternately, to control DOF, in A, a knob dials in aperture. This enables the camera to set the shutter speed. (I use a 64X ND filter in bright light.)

And, in PASU I can also dial in Exposure bias.

The auto gain works fine but I have User Mode set to +12dB were I need to set a fixed reasonable gain. To lock exposure, I use M mode.

The AF is great as you can see in my examples. But, I will soon try the MF RING -- a rare feature!

I trust the AWB. The audio has a limiter and I have "VU" meters to watch.

The only menu item I need sometimes is Wind Filter, but with the optional mic that has a muff I wouldn't even need that.

For photos, I set the primary settings once. User is assigned ISO = 100 (wish there was a 200) but I may find 400 is fine.

Remember the camera has very high native sensitivity. S control motion blur. A controls DOF. So far I leave Flash in Auto.

Then there is the Time control button.

I do use the menu to format a card.

So what I'm getting at, is that for gun&run I really don't use any menus. On a tripod, I might feel free to use more -- like to enable Focus Assist when using MF. But, I have chosen the color and see no reason to change it.

I was always a fan of Sony's One Touch AF. So on the PX100, I leave it in AF, zoom to subject, and press the MF/AF button once to lock focus.

I love the articulating LCD, but wish it had a top mounted Start/Stop button because I like to hold the camera near my body and shoot low -- like I did with the NEX. And, the NEX didn't have a power zoom.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 09:08 AM   #20
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

List of four YouTube Movies -- explanation provided with movies.

JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via FCP X SHARED plays as 720p30 -- long Project



JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via EXPORT from FCP X -- long Project



JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via SHARED from FCP X -- short Project


JVC GC-PX100 1080p60 via EXPORT from FCPX -- short Project


UPDATE: This is alternative to simply Sharing to YouTube and/or Vimeo. This easier procedure creates only a 10Mbps 720p30 encode. A 20Mbps 1080p30 alternative is available.
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; June 18th, 2013 at 10:37 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #21
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Steve - thank you for all the great details and the test shots. While I look at the one video with the red Begonia I'm puzzled as to why it appears to be either out of focus or over saturated with color. The one bloom that is the least distinct does appear to be closest to the camera while the other blooms and their leaves behind it appear to be more detailed.

Is that what we're seeing, a depth-of-field effect? Or is the red color over emphasized? Or both?
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Old June 19th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #22
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Over saturated in the YouTube compressed footage.

After much experimentation I realized that 1080p60 is a lot like 4K2K -- what do you do with it?!?

I decided to put 1080p60 into 720p60 Projects. It will be down-scaled to 720p60 -- which is legal on Bluray discs. YouTube will then convert 60p to 30p. This is much easier to stream than 1080p30.

Also, 1280x720p fits on more computer screens.

For playing on computers I'll export to uncompressed 422 8-bit. VERY low noise -- essentially a copy of the original.

But, what about the full 1920x1080 pixels?

Please read: Shooting Quad HD for HD projects | Cameras & Lenses content from Broadcast Engineering

Instead of 2160p60 video think 1080p60.

Both FCP X and iMovie do these FX very well. Look at the final zoom in on the video I'll soon post. It's a Ken Burn zoom.

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Last edited by Steve Mullen; June 19th, 2013 at 10:11 PM.
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Old June 20th, 2013, 11:26 PM   #23
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Could you please answers my 2 questions from before?
1) the low light was good? If you have time could you post a short sample of this with zooming in if possible.

2) Is there sound distortion when filming in loud environment?


Max. sensitivity is 1lux so it's very sensitive.


If you look at the sound test video I did at +6db -- there was no distortion.


My ND filter arrived. In bright overcast, in Manual at 1/60th second, the aperture was f/2. Exactly what I wanted. Should be about f/4 to f/4.5 in bright sunlight.


So far I've been using OIS. There are two additional modes:

AIS (video mode only): Reduces camera shake more effectively when shooting bright scenes on the wide angle end.

ENHANCED AIS (video mode only): The area of correction is greater than that in “AIS”. Camera shake can be reduced more effectively even when recording is performed by zooming from wide angle to telephoto, or moving together.

When “AIS” is set, the angle of view becomes narrower. In “ENHANCED AIS”, the angle of view becomes even narrower than “AIS”.

So these two modes add EIS to OIS. Will test whenin stops stemming in MN.

Steve
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; June 21st, 2013 at 01:27 AM.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 05:52 AM   #24
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Steve,

Thanks for all the play-by-play reporting on this camera. I went to a different store to test out this camera some more and got some good help from the staff. First thing was to switch the menu to English. So anyways, we figured out how to turn on the image stabilizer and that made all the difference. I also found that the display models don't have the battery installed and that was why it was feather light. I couldn't decide whether to get the JVC or the Panasonic DMC-FZ200, so I went back a third time and decided to get both. Unfortunately, the Panasonic model they had does not have any English menu system, but I found I could go to their Yokohama branch and get one. So, today I got the JVC and tomorrow, I hope to get the Panasonic, even though they really gouge me for that version, about $720 USD. I had to pay about $1200 for the JVC. I got an extra battery and a ND2 filter. Didn't get to do any side by side testing with my other high speeds (Casio EX-FH25 and Nikon P510) as the daylight ran out. Now, what kind of bag to put this in???
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 11:58 PM   #25
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Hi Mark,

Glad you got both cameras. Please join in the reporting. I can report a huge storm with trees down and power out. Unfortunately, all occurred in the middle of the night.

Today, late, we got sun so I could check 64X ND filter. Worked perfectly. 1/60th@ f/4.5 to f/5.0 was perfect.

Also reshot @120fps and 240fps. Still looked bad upscaled to 1280x720. I think slo-mo must be kept in a PIP FX at its actual resolution..



Here's a clip where the slo-mo is not upscaled. No better.



Sports analysis yes -- HD slo-mo -- no way.
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; June 23rd, 2013 at 01:19 AM.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 02:49 PM   #26
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Hi Steve - that's some informative testing. By the way, you've got some pretty good-sized trees around there so it's no wonder there are power outages when storms roll through.We get our share here, too. Electrical power and trees with wind storms don't mix very well, hence the generator in the garage.

What is the chance of getting a photo posted of the red flower so we can see what it looks like without the YouTube processing involved? I'd really like to know what it looks like in real life without their digital re-processing.

With regard to the slow motion, this is something that could really add in a certain situation. For example, maybe in wedding videos for a few seconds when the bride walks down the aisle, or maybe when the ring gets slipped on her finger, the kiss, ..... One would need a B-roll camera though. Instrumental videos - guitar player plucking the strings, that sort of thing. There would have to be a balance between the slo-mo speed vs the quality of the video but in some cases a lesser quality could be acceptable.

It would be interesting to know how much of the cost is due to the slo-mo capability. JVC doesn't list a model "below" the PX100 that uses the same body. I really like the shape and control features of the camera and of course the price. The 60p is something that with boating videos that show wave action would be very desirable.

The viewfinder has a built-in shield but it is not rotateable so I'm not sure how the tradeoff would be. I often rotate the flip-out viewfinder so I can see it better but if there is a shield then maybe that would work just as well.

Just rambling on here .... thanks again for the informative test shots.

Mark - $1200 for the JVC in Japan??? How does that happen? Geeze... you'd think it would be cheaper!
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 06:02 PM   #27
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Electronics are more expensive over here. I bought my Canon 70-200mm F/2.8 L IS in Thailand for $1800. Five years later, it's still priced at $2700 in Japan, where it's made. I didn't want to go the third-party route this time and have someone else repackage my camera and ship it to me. If it has lithium-ion batteries, it can't be shipped over here. I've just been doing some testing of the camera yesterday. I got it because the zoom can be used while recording in high speed mode. That works fine. The LCD shade can be removed, but it's a nice feature to have. One thing against the camera is that if you shut if off and then back on, the high speed mode you were in is not retained and it will revert to normal speed video.So you have to press the time control button, rotate the little wheel to select the frame rate, then press SET. Even though the resolution is the same at 120 and 240fps, it looks to me like there's some image quality loss when going up to 240. Not sure yet, need to do some more testing. I'm about to go on a long trip and will have limited internet. I'll post some footage when I get a chance. Wish it had a LANC remote connection.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 07:33 PM   #28
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

NOTES:

FCP 6 does not support 1080p60 Sequences. MP4 audio must be rendered -- and not in background. The 96kHz audio is accepted. Bottom-line shoot 720p60 MOV. Because it uses YCrCb it cuts signal above 100%.

Avid Media Composer 6 does not support 1080p60 Sequences. The 96kHz audio is accepted. Bottom-line shoot 720p60 MOV. Because it uses RGB it does not cut signal above 100%. AMA (native MP4 editing) works for both MP4 and MOV. But, playback is not good on an AIR because of MP4. Transcode to DNxHD works fine and plays fine, but takes lots of time.

iMovie 11 does not support officially p60. Video at p60 will be passed through, but during an FX the frame rate drops to p30. FX look fine, however, The 96kHz audio IS accepted. Because it uses RGB it does not cut signal above 100%.

FCPX is the winner. Shoot 1080p60 or 720p60 MOV. Create and view Proxy. Export 1080p60 or 720p60.

FREEZE FRAME OF FLOWER:
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; June 24th, 2013 at 10:58 AM.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 08:14 PM   #29
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

Avid Media Composer 6, because it supports 720p60 Sequences, 96kHz audio, and has AMA, is my second choice NLE for a fast computer. Transcode of AMA clips to DNxHD clips takes lots of time, but can be done at night.

=======================================

iMovie is still wonderful because it's so fast. Shoot 1080p60 and, when needed, Pan&Scan, to 720p60. Remember, there is NO rendering -- ever! (Of course, going to YouTube requires an encode, but not to 8-bit 422 uncompressed -- where you can define the frame rate to p60.)
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; June 24th, 2013 at 02:09 AM.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 02:09 AM   #30
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Re: Information on the new JVC GC-PX100

WOW!

120fps and 240fps can be made to look OK!

Minimal aliasing. Still a bit soft, however.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh1xTzf4wO8" to view a 720p version.

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