Striping Tapes...yes or no? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The Long Black Line

The Long Black Line
Tape, tape and more tape; and decks; HDV, DV, VHS and more.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 4th, 2002, 09:14 PM   #16
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,892
Stiping - Control Track

Hello. Well I looked for this word in all of the posts and didn't see it. When anything is recorded onto the tape it lays what is known as a control track that contains user bit info / time code. This gives the heads something to read. Anyway, in the past with linear editing (decks) you either built your edits with butt edits building control track as you went or you used pre-striped tape stock. Buying pre-striped just saves time. With striped stock one can insert edit any audio/video (together or seperately) ANYWHERE in a finished product, for fixes, without breaking the control track and getting the infamous frame roll and noise which is irreparable because breaking control breaks time code. Well, with non-linear this is no longer an issue thank goodness!!! As for pre-striping for shooting purposes, I can't see a purpose because it just adds an unnecessary pass on the tape surface. If you want blank spaces between shots, just shoot an extra 2-3 seconds of pad on the rear and for cuing to maintain time code or control for the next shot just hit the review button on the XL and it automatically rolls the tape back to make a splice where control track is. That's what that extra 2-3 seconds of pad is for.
James Emory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2002, 09:45 PM   #17
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
*sigh*
once more, with emphasis, striping is meaningless for DV format.
Everything you say is true for analog, not DV. If you want to pre- condition the tape surface, then do a fast forward and rewind. Save the wear and tear on your heads, don't bother to stripe a DV tape. There is no such thing as pre-striped DV tape.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2002, 10:30 PM   #18
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,892
Pre striped DV tapes

Howdy. I agree that it is meaningless with what we have for alternatives today. But, if I record control on a DV tape right now with black, bars or whatever then it is striped for later insert editing. So, when I use it later it is "pre-striped" for my convenience if I choose to perform insert editing. So, yes there is such a thing as a pre-striped DV tape. I never said anything about "pre-conditioning" a tape. That has nothing to do with it. In my post I said it was USELESS for shooting purposes, unless you're performing in-camera editing which some cameras offer. Try doing that without pre-striping (control), it won't work. If you have ever insert edited then you will know what it means. Just break control in the middle of a project with assemble mode and see what happens. Who needs striping today with non-linear? Whether they can be bought that way or not was not my point but any tape with a control track is striped. It's just a term for control track. Again, I agree that its not needed but it is a solution if desired. It was good speaking with you.
James Emory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2002, 10:41 PM   #19
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
James....
yeah, I understand what you're saying about insert editing. Are you doing linear editting on DV tape? my question is why? The DV format completely writes over EVERYTHING that's on the tape, including the time code. If you try to play back a DV tape that has had a segment inserted into the middle of another segment, you'll notice that the timecode is non-sequential....in other words, it really messes with the camera's tape transport control.
Linear editting is something going the way of celluloid film....riding off into the sunset.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2002, 11:45 PM   #20
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,892
Insert Editing

Bill,
I use a non-linear platform. I am totally digital man! I don't know if I even remember how to deck edit and feel sorry for those that do. I am NOT pushing the idea of striping tapes for editing. I was simply explaining what it is and how it works and how the other posters could accomplish what they wanted to do with it. Then I am simply resoponding to your comments that it doesn't exist on DV. It exists on ANY tape if it has a control track. Also, I know that if you record over info in assemble edit, which is standard recording procedure, the code is rewritten but not in insert mode. The new XL-1s apparently has the ability to perform a/v inserts which should leave the code intact. That's the whole reason for insert, not to break control. I gotta go you're killin me. It was good speaking with again.
James Emory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 02:53 AM   #21
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
I resent that quip about linear editing. I had to live with it for all my video courses in college (this was only two years ago!) I became a damn near wizard with SVHS decks and a video toaster.

Anyway, I'm told many shows (sitcoms and the like) are still edited linear, with an A/B deck. The only shows not edited this way (once again, I'm told) are those that have lots of graphics (probably Access Hollywood or something). Our UPN affiliate edited one of their shows this way. I asked them why they didn't do it on their nonlinear systems, and they said they'd tried it once and it actually took longer, due to the fact they had to capture everything before they could edit it, and had to create titles in the editor instead of just overlaying with a Chyron.
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 03:11 AM   #22
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,892
Linear editing

Don't take it so hard. I learned to edit professionally on 3/4" so I know exactly what it's like man. I spent hours and hours in the suite going back and forth. I did not speak without reverence. I've put my time in. I definitely agree that NLE is not practical for fast paced gotta have it now environments but only because of capture time. You can't argue though, that NLE is the solution for accuracy and versatility in complex cutting. More sitcoms than you think are shot on film and cut with NLE. There will always be decks available until the disc and drive take over for instant access. It was good to speak with you.
James Emory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 04:28 AM   #23
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
Which ones are on film? I can tell Bernie Mac is, but I haven't been watching much TV for about a year and a half. Grounded for life too? Too me it just looks like most are on video, and they do something to the framerate. Those live Drew Carreys look different from the regular show.
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 06:19 AM   #24
New Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec Canada
Posts: 7
Hey Guys,

I am fairly new to this forum, and it feels like I opened up a can of worms!

So some do stripe, others don't, each having fairly decent reasons.
In the end it is the matter of knowing you got the stuff on tape, rather then hoping you do.

Getting the continuous time code for my software was exactly the reason why I started to stripe, it seemed like such a simple solution, but if this even causes a slight chance of decreased quality, I will stop doing it.

If humidity could cause a factor, God am I in trouble here, it has indeed been humid for weeks!!

Another question I will throw into the mix, assuming we all do like our XL1 ( s) camera's.

What about the quallity of tapes?
I now only use Panasonic, what is the general idea on this what goes, and what does not?
Can this not play a major factor into the problems I experienced?

Thanks you all, it is good to be able to talk about the things that do bug me, stay tuned, I have more to learn, but I'll give you a break for now..;-)

Sjef
Sjef Beekmans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 08:18 AM   #25
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
LOL...well, apologies to all...I'm not the most considerate person in the world with some of my posts. It's poking fun, but, comes across as a little more insulting and I'm sorry.

On the subject of tape brand, both Sony and Panasonic are excellent quality. Canon tape is just relabelled Panasonic tape. Many large tape houses also use Fuji. Sony and Panasonic used to be incompatible with each other because of the type of lubricant they used on the tape. I think that problem has been resolved. Still, I would recommend picking a brand and sticking with it. If you have to change brands, be sure to run a head cleaner tape thru first.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 04:06 PM   #26
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Posts: 287
It all depends on your usage. For me, continuous time code on a roll is very valuable. Not only does it make it easy to batch capture to the NLE, but throughout post, it let's you positively identify footage (roll/timecode). Since the XL1 will sync up to existing time code on a tape, it's worth it for me to stripe the tape. Without a striped tape, you end up with blocks of timecode on each roll.

Getting back to Sjef's original post, though, I'm assuming you are talking about four or five broad horizontal bands where it looks like you are seeing one image in one set of bands and another in the alternate set of bands. Not the tiny little mosaic noise sort of dot things on the screen. I've seen this banding before, but I do not believe that it is related to striping (or even re-recording) the tape. I've seen it happen on fresh out of the box tape. In my case, it lasted for a few minutes after the camera was restarted in the middle of a roll. I attributed it to the weather (a very cold, windy shoot). Interestingly, I've also seen a very similar effect when trying to play miniDV tapes recorded on Sony VTRs in my XL1. Everyone I've talked to has said that the specs for DV were not tight enough (or maybe too tight) so the equipment is not 100% compatible across manufacturers. So, things shot on a Sony may not play in Canon or Panasonic cameras.

Maybe someone could spread a little better informed light on this issue.
Ralph Keyser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 04:30 PM   #27
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
What do you mean about "blocks of time code on each reel?" As long as you don't fast forward the tape past the last place where you stopped recording, the time code will pick up again from wherever it was.
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 04:40 PM   #28
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Posts: 287
Oh, sorry. I wasn't very clear. Josh is right, of course. The problem comes when you've shut down the camera and come back to a given roll (maybe it's B-roll shots for example).
Ralph Keyser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 04:44 PM   #29
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
Still confused. Sorry.
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2002, 07:28 PM   #30
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 181
Can't anyone keep it simple?
1.) With all the non-linear systems in existance, why would anyone try to or want to do mini-dv linear insert editing?
2.) Yes, to make sure your tape is correctly set in the transport system and not loose, you should( in the vcr mode) FF and then rewind to tighten the tape.
3.) You only have to black burst a tape for insert editing.
4.) An analog tape, the third tape must have to go through this procedure to "insert" a section of Tape "A" or "B" onto the third tape which will give you a finished product.
5.) NLE allows you to move things around, crop, and or cut at will. Linear imitations are so, that if you decide to change something in the beginning of an edited tape you mind as well start from scratch.

Bruce
B. Moore is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The Long Black Line

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:44 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network