NTSC and PAL at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The Long Black Line

The Long Black Line
Tape, tape and more tape; and decks; HDV, DV, VHS and more.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 21st, 2004, 04:58 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 30
NTSC and PAL

can someone please explain this for me?
Ricky Serret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2004, 05:09 AM   #2
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
Well what would you like to know?
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2004, 10:28 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 572
We could all start talking about the history, places these are used, specifications of the signal, etc...but there are PLENTY of articles online and discussion here about it already. Please do a search here or at Google.com first. Thx
Jesse Bekas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2004, 12:18 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 30
i tried searching here but i couldn't limit the search enough to find out the difference and i didn't wanna have to look through every thread that says NTSC or PAL in them. i was just curious as to what the difference between the 2 was.
Ricky Serret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2004, 12:32 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 572
The basics are...
NTSC consists of a 720X480 pixels space being refrshed at 60Hz, or shown at 60 interlaced fields (29.97 frames) per second. It is used mostly in N.A. and Japan.

PAL is 720X576 pixels being refreshed at 50 fps. It is used mostly in some parts of Europe.

The two specs are incompatible due to actual picture size and frame rates (NTSC won't play on a PAL only system, and vice versa without some conversion). If you multiply all the numbers inside each spec they equal eachother. It was just 2 ways of getting the same amount of picture info out. NTSC looks smoother due to the higher frame refresh rate, but PAL has better color space.
Jesse Bekas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2004, 03:55 AM   #6
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
To sum it up in a little table form:

NTSC:
- resolution: 720 x 480 (DV)
- framerate: 29.97 frames per second (fps) / 59.94 fields per second, also known as 30 fps and 60 fields per second

PAL:
- resolution: 720 x 576 (DV)
- framerate: 25 fps / 50 fields per second

For more technical information (including analog frequencies)
on PAL, SECAM & NTSC and the where it is used in the world
check out the following link:

http://www.high-techproductions.com/pal,ntsc.htm

For more information on frames, progressive and interlacing
see the following thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=21130
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

Last edited by Rob Lohman; January 12th, 2006 at 07:32 AM.
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2004, 01:20 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 30
ok, thanks alot for the help. it's much apprcieated.
Ricky Serret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2004, 04:13 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Falls Church Virginia
Posts: 61
Anyone,

I produce video in the U.S. but want to get an XL2 pal because:
1. Higher gross pixel count / higher vertical resolution
2. 4:2:1 color space
3. Converts to DVD cleaner than ntsc.
4. Most projectors and dvd players have pal/ntsc option.

Are my facts right?
Do any other ntsc country people here work with pal?
And how do you manage it?

Thanks
Michael Hamilton
Michael Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2004, 04:22 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Falls Church Virginia
Posts: 61
I forgot to ask if all things considered, is it a very practical idea to work with pal in the U.S. considering that most everybody else here is using ntsc ( you know swapping files and tapes etc. ).

Double thanks in advance
Michael Hamilton
Michael Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2004, 04:55 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: switzerland
Posts: 2,131
As european i got the same reaction but from PAL to NTSC.
Here in europe , everybody is able to read NTSC, because the large amount of zone 1 DVD, so here in europe nobody would buy a DVD player that is not multi-zone. So there is no problem to use a NTSC camera (as long the final output is on DVD).
For the screens, most of the projectors and screens have now a RGB, or Y, Pb,PR output and are compatible with both standards.
I am not interested by NTSC or 30fps, but in my case the only way to go HDV was to take the JVC in US format as the european model has no HDV feature. It is a different story with the new sony, but that is another story.
I think the reverse is not true.
America is living on his own, and always had ignored PAL.
the result is i doubt the DVD player found in your supermarket are multi-zone or your screens are multi-standard.
So you could end up with a nice video that you can only display on very specific equipment in your country.
The only advantage to go to PAL for you would be to use progressive pictures knowing that 25fps is not so far from the 24fps of film, but for video frankly it is more a conversion nightmare than a good deal.
Giroud Francois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2004, 09:49 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 572
You could certainly work with a PAL camera if its for your own purposes, but swapping and mixing work with others and their NTSC workflows could be a hassle as you'll most likely have to convert all your footage. You could not, say for instance, plug your cam into a friends TV and expect to watch video off of it, as a European might be able to do with NTSC.
Jesse Bekas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2004, 09:04 AM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Falls Church Virginia
Posts: 61
Thanks. I really appreciate your input.
Looks like we are stuck with lower resolution SD here in the U.S.
I guess I'll get ntsc cam then.
Michael Hamilton
Michael Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2004, 09:16 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Falls Church Virginia
Posts: 61
Jesse,

"If you multiply all the numbers inside each spec they equal eachother. It was just 2 ways of getting the same amount of picture info out. NTSC looks smoother due to the higher frame refresh rate, but PAL has better color space."

So pal essentially has no more overall resolution than ntsc?
And the only difference in picture quality is 4:1:1 vs 4:2:1?

Michael
Michael Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2004, 09:25 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA
Posts: 572
PAL does have more resolution in a single frame, but spaced over a single second, they are equivalent in picture information becuase NTSC shows more frames...

PAL 720 horizontal X 576 Vertical X 50Hz = 20736000
NTSC 720 horizontal X 480 Vertical X 60Hz = 20736000

Same amount of picture info, over time (and besides color space). I don't actually know why we don't use the same color space, though. Anybody?
Jesse Bekas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2004, 09:26 AM   #15
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
PAL (DV) is actually 4:2:0, not 4:2:1. NTSC (DV) is 4:1:1. I can't
attest to quality, but I read some places it is supposed to be a
bit better indeed.
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The Long Black Line

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:37 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network