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Old March 5th, 2005, 11:24 AM   #16
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Dave, thanks for your understanding. Mind if you share the white paper or spec sheets this understanding comes from? I have a different understanding... and it is based on different things I have heard or been told by different people.

The point of this thread, was to cut through 'what I hear is...' and hopefully find 'Sony states on their website that...." or "Adam wilt has a definitive list of wet and dry tapes, located at ..."
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Old March 5th, 2005, 01:50 PM   #17
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I heard that:
Jan Crittenden said that the master Panasonic tapes were dry while the normal cheaper ones are wet. It turns out that the normal ones are dry lubricant too.

(Just spreading uncertainty here.)
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Old March 5th, 2005, 02:11 PM   #18
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Gee... thanks Glen. I'll have to think of SOME way to repay the favor... :)
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Old March 6th, 2005, 01:59 PM   #19
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http://www.philpang.com/tips/minidv_lubricants.html
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Old March 7th, 2005, 04:00 PM   #20
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My XL2 arrived a day early (today) and my tapes are on the way from TapeOnline.com tomorrow morning =(

I took a loss with half a box of Fujis as I've decided to go with Panasonic MQ's, $5.50/each as their online brochure states the MQ uses a dry lubricant not to mention Zotz's recommendation. I'm not taking any chances

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=68726&catGroupId=14633&modelNo=AY-DVM63MQ&surfModel=AY-DVM63MQ
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Old March 7th, 2005, 06:09 PM   #21
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Kevin,

Johns posted link above, would indicate that fuji's are dry. Still, like you, I set aside the box I had. I do use them for dubs in my dsr11 and such. So they are not 'wasted' and you can always sell them to others.
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Old March 8th, 2005, 02:39 PM   #22
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This link was just a search hit that I otherwise have never run into before, so I absolutely cannot vouch for the accuracy of any info in it, and it is getting a bit dated. But, it does seem to be in agreement with prevailing wisdom on several points, and goes a bit deeper. So for whatever value it may have, here it is:

http://www.zenera.com/reference/dvtape.html

An especially interesting comment is that about 70% of tapes are actually manufactured by Panasonic (I'll guess that would be most or all that are known to be "dry lubricant???").
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Old March 8th, 2005, 10:00 PM   #23
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>> An especially interesting comment is that about 70% of tapes are actually manufactured by Panasonic (I'll guess that would be most or all that are known to be "dry lubricant???").

UrbanFox lists tape manufacturers here (I don't know how accurate it is):

http://www.urbanfox.tv/articles/tape/t2manufacturers.htm

and has some info on tape here:

http://www.urbanfox.tv/articles/tape/t1tape.htm
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Old March 9th, 2005, 11:26 AM   #24
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Thanks much, John. True, all of these are unverified sources, but I think all the info is definitely worth a read for anyone interested in tape technology.
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Old April 26th, 2005, 02:44 PM   #25
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Just my personal experience, but I formerly used Fujis with my XL1s and switched to Panasonic MQ for the XL2 per the dry lube discussions found here on the board. I noticed early on, the 3rd or 4th MQ tape on a new XL2 had a short blue screen segment, maybe 5 seconds. Didn't think nothing of it, just cleaned the heads (I did indeed clean the heads before initial use). Weekend before last, I got the "Heads are Dirty" message in the field which I've never seen before (only 6 hours of recording time). Cleaned them and when I reviewed the footage, I had terrible banding and entirely lost segments of footage which was replaced with blue screen and no audio for minutes at a time, even after I cleaned the heads.

So I cleaned the camera yet again and thought, what the hell, I'll try some of my left over Fujis. Enter this past weekend and what a glorious one it was as I knew I got some killer shots. So upon viewing the footage (5 tapes worth and hella nervous), there was not a single glitch, banding, lost recording, or any of the like in all 5 hours of footage!

I don't know if it's coincidental or what, but I'm using Fujis exclusively as I did with my XL1s from now on.

Kevin
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Old April 26th, 2005, 03:37 PM   #26
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I would have demanded a new xl2 and tried the MQs again.

I'm not fixated on MQs you understand - merely on the idea that a brand new Canon should accept the first and only brand of tape used in it, or it's time to put your foot down.
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Old April 26th, 2005, 04:00 PM   #27
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Yes, this is actually my second XL2 (diff problem).

My XL1s exhibited the same problem 1x early on but with Fuji tapes. Much like my situation now, I was in the middle of production and couldn't afford to send it in. In 3 months time, the problem never occurred again until the last tape on the last shooting day. Sent it in to Canon and they replaced the recorder unit under warranty.

With the XL2, it is possible that debris got into the camera as the shooting conditions were identical to the XL1s. Same problem, 2 different cameras, 2 different tape stocks. Like I said, it may be coincidental, but the MQs continued to show problems after cleaning. Maybe the 3rd run with the head cleaner did the trick and the Fujis didn't come into play at all, don't know but I'm not willing to run the risk of it not being the case. I will be sending it in to service in late July for the aforementioned problem as well as a few others.

Kevin
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Old April 26th, 2005, 04:47 PM   #28
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With no reliable evidence to show any difference between various tapes from different manufactures, and also after following all the past discussions - each never really getting to the bottom of the original questions asked, I finally chose not keep worrying about a change to using a different, or so-called 'better-tape'.

I have used, and continue to use cheap JVC normal MiniDV tapes in my XL1s with no problems so far at all, so I've decided to stick with them.

For my next major shoot (which will cover a 4-5 month period) I've just purchased a stack of normal JVC tapes, with a smaller number of Pro-JVC for the most important periods of shooting (although I'll probably never notice even a slight difference in quality or number of drop-outs when doing the final editing between them except their price differences!).

If, after many further hours, days, weeks or months of filming I begin to notice serious problems, I'll swallow hard and dig deep to buy only Pro-tapes or DV tapes in the future...but hopefully (!) that will not happen, and by October I'll be able to come back and say that I made the right decision.
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 07:29 PM   #29
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No offense intended, but ....

Which is wet and which is dry? And does it matter?

Urban legend material.

Theories formulated based upon anecdotal evidence.

Not a single respectable study performed.

Anyone who makes decisions or alters their habits based upon all that has been written and repeated on this subject would do as well by reading their horoscopes, IMHO.
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Old May 5th, 2005, 02:56 PM   #30
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Must have been a bad hair day...

Sorry about the tone of the preceding post. Although it does say bascially what I think, the manner of expression not my usual style.
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