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Old January 11th, 2010, 12:51 PM   #1
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Wet vs. Dry tape lubricant controversy

Here's Sony's explanation of the wet vs. dry rumors/speculations:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...dvtapelube.pdf
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:47 AM   #2
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That's a good find. And good to see that someone at Sony cares enough to look in to the matter and publish their findings.

Andrew
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:29 AM   #3
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about time somone put that theory into technical analisis.

to bad it still happens :-) mabey i should . . .
"If you have evidence that mixing different brands of tape is the sole reason for your head clog, please contact Sony via your supplier to arrange for a chemical analysis of the material on your heads."
. . .send them some tapes, because they arent getting my heads.

i usually use sony DVCAM only in the dv tapes, and Only ME fugi in D8, and the only total blowouts i have had were when shoving a low metalic (as visually percieved) tape into the camera. AND not only that, but i can switch back to the other tape and have the same cam work again, without cleaning the heads.
i always thought it had more to do with some tapes being better and some tapes being more plasticy and falling apart, some being more "abrasive", generally AGED/oxidized plastic gets more brittle and fails in many other situations.

Chances ARE good there is Crud on my heads, but going from working non stop without cleaning, to miserable Fail after using a different type when the type i use is not available exists, and i sure dont like taking the chances.

it happens most when i go from "pro" use to testing or personal use, and would use the tapes that i would not use professionally, those "other" tapes that we avoid. tapes that sometimes were supposed to be better Like a sony high8 "editor" dlc E6 ME, ALL of those were complete junk.
Or when i use a tape from an outside source, which now i clean the heads after stuffing some other persons tapes in my machines.

to many people found crappy tape to cause problems , when they switched , as to it being due to some myth of different lubricants, the users saw what they saw.
you can not get people who got BURNED totally to start using some other tape, especially when it happened more than 2 times the same way.

So there never was wet/dry in existance, but there sure is total failure of using certain tape types.
think on HOW they ended UP with some tape that was not thier "prefered" one, it is likly to be a POS from a local store, lower quaility , Aged, stored poorly etc. Oh no were out of tape, run to some local store and destroy your project :-)

if they wanted to do an analisis of what is falling off on the heads, they should go to the regular stores to get a normal selection that isnt all new and ready to test.
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Last edited by Marty Welk; January 12th, 2010 at 04:18 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:53 AM   #4
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Speaking of sony tape :-) Anchient history
I had a problem with some 3/4" tapes from sony one time.
for some reason they sent over a Rep, i have never seen a rep before, that was special.
the Rep says, that he can replace the tapes i was having a problem with, with the ones in the trunk of his car . . .
sounds good so far right?

his car was black and it was 110*F outside and at least 115*F inside his trunk, AND the tapes look like ones he just "switched" with somebody else , who probably also had a problem at a different studio.

that is just mean playing the both of us like fools, taking one persons problem and dumping it on another person , under the idea that , the problem was all in our heads or something.
Grrrrrr

of course i took the replacement tapes, because the ones i had were having lots of dropout issues (useless) , and got these "other" ones that he was so sure were not a problem. and i Inherited the problem that the other studio had, a problem with the reels.

If the rug is big enough sweep it under it.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 05:22 AM   #5
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Marty,

I wouldn't knock the idea of Sony getting to test your heads. They have some pretty neat HDV / DV etc decks and I'm sure they wouldn't mind loaning you one while they have yours. :-P

And we'd all love to get to the bottom of the issue for once and for all.

Andrew
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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #6
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Wow, this is amazing. I've seen so many threads bashing back and forth the 'evidence' that mixing tape brands is a recipe for disaster. This is the first time I've seen any manufacturer release a statement with a hard conclusion on the issue:

"The fact is, mixing different brands of tape should cause you no problem,
especially if your machine is properly maintained."

It doesn't get much clearer than that.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 04:50 PM   #7
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However Canon say there *are* wet and dry cleaning tapes. Click question 14 .. how do I clean the video heads. There they state, don't use wet type you could damage your heads.

And they state clean the heads frequently, not every 50hrs. I agree with that and using the cleaning tape only once through, when other brands say you can use it twice through. That's definitely wrong, you're just dumping crud back on the guides and heads.

Professional Camcorders - High Definition Camcorders and Lenses - Standard Definition Camcorders - Software - High Definition Camcorder - XH A1S - Canon USA Consumer Products

Eventually all this is academic, Canon and JVC have released 19 new vid cams for 2010 and only one is DV tape, and it's the current Canon HV40. Big crunch time coming for a lot of DV tape users.

Cheers.
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Last edited by Allan Black; January 14th, 2010 at 05:06 PM. Reason: more conflicting stuff.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 05:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Eventually all this is academic, Canon and JVC have released 19 new vid cams for 2010 and only one is DV tape, and it's the current Canon HV40. Big crunch time coming for a lot of DV tape users.
Eventually, yes but when Canon et al finally stop making tape based camcorders altogether there will be an even greater requirement to keep the legacy equipment running properly to access the footage archived on tape for those of us with hundreds of hours of footage.

Bet it still continues to work for longer than some of the more youthful formats though - my reel to reel audio tapes are doing just fine :-)
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Old January 14th, 2010, 09:51 PM   #9
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One of the things I like about my Sony V1 camera is that it has a HDMI out which gives you the video signal straight off the CCD, before it goes through the compression stage for HDV.

By the time the tape availability dies I will be able to record off the HDMI signal for very little extra dollars.

Andrew
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Old January 14th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Black View Post
However Canon say there *are* wet and dry cleaning tapes. Click question 14 .. how do I clean the video heads. There they state, don't use wet type you could damage your heads.
I SUSPECT what they are talking about is Isopropyl Alcohol wet head cleaners like we used to use for VHS decks, with a moving head swabber that you apply alcohol to.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 11:48 AM   #11
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Two years ago when I got my two Sony V1U cameras I did extensive research about which tapes to use. After reading a lot of good info on forums including this one I went with Panny tapes.

However I started seeing dropouts in those tapes after the first 20 or so and I was ordering them from several different sources but all had the same issue. So after a year I did more forum research and felt there were enough people using the base / inexpensive Sony tapes with no issues to try that. I buy them for just over two bucks each through Amazon or other online sources and have never had a single dropout issue since. I had been paying around four bucks for the Panny tapes.
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 09:29 PM   #12
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Wow!!!! What an interesting PDF. I especially like the diagrams and explanation to how the heads work. Now I know what those bands around the head are for, ha ha.

Seriously though, this is Sony their products have to work, they are making a lot of money from it all. They can not admit to any fault/flaw in thier systems/technology.
Interesting read though and good of Sony to have a go at explaining things.

I personally use the Sony Premium dv tapes all the time whether I am shooting DV or HDV but stick to using the same all the time. I do not mix brands of tape!

I have recently been on a multi day shoot where one camera used the expensive Sony HDV tapes and one camera used the Sony Premium.

When on capturing the footage from tape 1 from both cameras the the HDV tape had a couple of drop outs (no big deal the other camera caught what I needed) which happened to be using the Premium tapes. This tape had no drop outs.

Then on capturing the footage from tape 2 from both cameras the Premium tape had suffered a drop out (yet again no problem the other camera caught what I needed) the HDV had none. the exact reverse of before!

On other tapes both cameras and tapes had no drop outs at all.

So where does this leave us. I suppose there is more involved than just tapes that can cause a dropout. Could be the firewire cable or a software problem (mmm theres food for thought) or it could be in the down conversion on camera if one is using that feature.

I guess the proof is in the pudding with user experiances from forums like this with what works and what does not. What you should do and what you should not do.
Read as much as you can and do your reasearch and make ones own judgement.

That's my two pennies worth!

(:-})
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Old November 5th, 2010, 01:52 PM   #13
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Best dv tapes

Hi,
;just a comment. I read this or a similar thread when I bought my Sony FX7 camera going on 2 years now. At the time I heard that the Sony Dv Premium tapes in the Black and blue rapper work well. I have been using them ever since with no problems. I decided since these work I would not chance trying anything else. I was able to pickup a 10 PAC at my local Cosco for about $2.50 USD for each tape until recently when they stopped selling them. Bummer :-(. I use the program HDSplit and occasionally I do get a red frame but not very often and it is usually in the beginning or end of the clip. This ends up being about 7 frames or so. Something I can live with when it happens. I recently got tapes at Target after Cosco stopped sell them and I got some red frames that I have not gotten with the Cosco tapes. Maybe just an old stock.
Any good place to get these tapes in bulk 10-20 at a time? And how often should I clean my heads?

John Gerard
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Old November 5th, 2010, 02:33 PM   #14
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Clean your heads when the cam tells you to.

I get all my tapes at tape online dot com. I get them in caes of 100 so they're about two bucks each, more or less.
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