blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The Long Black Line

The Long Black Line
Tape, tape and more tape; and decks; HDV, DV, VHS and more.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 16th, 2011, 11:07 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Simsbury, CT
Posts: 247
blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

Using a recently serviced FX-1, I shot HDV on several Sony miniDV tapes the other night ... all of the tapes came out fine, except for one, which shows only a blue screen on playback -- although the time code runs while playing. And when is push FF or REW while playing, I can see recorded footage.

I have tried playing this tape on the same camera that it was shot with, and on different cameras. Same result.

I shot another tape successfully on the same camera right after this tape, too. (in other words, no playback problems with the later tape on same camera).

I've done a search through the archives and this has cropped up before with other cameras, but there didn't appear to be many solutions. So before I send the tape to Sony Media Services, I was hoping someone might be able to chime in with (1) a suggestion about how to rescue the footage, and (2) any suggestion as to why this happened.

Thanks.
Dave Lammey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2011, 03:46 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 3,634
Images: 18
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

Hi, Dave.................

I don't know how many instances of this BSOD situation you found, but I've seen nearly 30 in the last 3 or 4 years.

They all share a very similar MO: 1, 2 or 3 tapes out of N, always show vid on FF or REW, never is a reason found, nor a fix discovered.

Bit like Death and Taxes, they just happen.

Not too many people prepared or competent to start realigning tape heads on the fly to try to get these tapes to read, so it's over to the pro's, simple as that.

Sorry I can't be the bearer of better news.

Good luck.


CS
Chris Soucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2011, 09:31 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Simsbury, CT
Posts: 247
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

Thanks Chris. I'll be sending the tape out to Sony Media Services and hoping for a miracle.
Dave Lammey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 19th, 2011, 10:46 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Albury NSW
Posts: 46
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

Good Luck,

Hope they can retrieve your footage for you, when this happened to me, I explained it to my client, and they were not to fussed as I was filming football at the time and it was only 10 minutes in 3rd quarter I lost, but If I was filming an important once of occasion like a Wedding or something of the like, I would defiantly be sending it to Sony recovery like you are, I would think that they will be able to retrieve the footage though as technically it is still there on the tape.

BTW this is what Sony tried to tell me once I emailed them about it ----

1) Tape recording -
The symptom described by the customer appears to be dropout.
Dropout is a loss of signal on the tape and when using tape, dropout cannot be completely eliminated.
Dropout is caused by dirt/dust particles that get into the tape mechanism, for example, when inserting or removing a tape.
HDV is a high compression format using long GOP. (Group of pictures)
A long GOP consists of 15 frames. Therefore, the slightest dropout (even a micro second)will result in a minimum loss of 15 frames, hence, a freeze of 15 frames during playback.
Therefore it is important to use tape designed for HDV as these tapes are normally double layer to help reduce dropout.
HDV tape also has a limited re-use life.

They make us sound like idiots, and what this tech guy is saying you shouldn't be using normal tapes for HDV recording, I have been using normal tapes for along time and never had an issue, but when I was filming weddings I would buy the HDV quality tapes to eliminate any risk.

Now though I have made the switch to memory card and use tape as precautionary backup if memory card was to fail.


Cheers

Wayne Dear
Wayne Dear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2011, 07:38 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Simsbury, CT
Posts: 247
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

Thanks for the info, Wayne. I have been using the premium miniDV tapes since 2006 and sure, I got occasional dropouts (losing 7-8 seconds of footage), but I've never had an entire tape dropout, like this.

I've also used HDV tape before and if I recall, I had a minor dropout on one of those too, so I figured there wasn't any difference and stayed with the premium tapes. But now, after this disaster, I will be switching to the HDV tapes in the hopes that at least they will prevent an entire tape from dropping out.

I can't wait to switch to a non-tape solution.
Dave Lammey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2011, 11:51 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA USA
Posts: 3,464
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

I'm pretty sure what you're describing is not a dropout. It's a case of head misalignment as Chris has described. Nothing to do with dropouts or tape quality at all, as far as I know. As you've seen in FF or REW mode, the signal is there, just not being read in PLAY mode. In a dropout the oxide is gone and there is no signal at all, and it is momentary. A totally different problem.

BTW, you can hook up an MRC1k to your FX1 and be tapeless in moments.
__________________
"It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

Last edited by Adam Gold; May 20th, 2011 at 11:18 PM.
Adam Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Simsbury, CT
Posts: 247
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

Thanks Adam. If it is a head misalignment problem, I assume I should be getting the camera serviced -- even though it was just serviced. Of course, the folks at Mack may have done something wrong.

But as I said, I shot several tapes before this without incident, and several tapes after. If it''s a head misalignment problem, would it only crop up sporadically?

I'll be looking into that MRC1k ...
Dave Lammey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2011, 06:14 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA USA
Posts: 3,464
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

No one's ever been able to definitevely explain this problem, although it does crop up from time to time. The irony is, the tapes that play fine now may no longer play if the heads are re-aligned. If that is indeed what it is.

Let's just hope Sony can recover your data.
__________________
"It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."
Adam Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2011, 06:42 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Simsbury, CT
Posts: 247
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

Thanks Adam.
Dave Lammey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2011, 09:04 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newtownabbey, UK
Posts: 65
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

this happened to me with a wedding I recorded on z1's a few years ago. I went back to capture a tape I had forgotten about and my hdv deck would only show video when ff or rewinding.

I used one of my z7's and it was fine. No explanation but it might be worth trying as many other cameras as possible.

M.
Michael Bradshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2011, 03:37 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Simsbury, CT
Posts: 247
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

thanks Michael. I have tried to play it on several different HDV cameras and nothing works.

Unfortunately, just got word back from Sony Media Services:

"We’re sorry to tell you that there was no recovery possible due to the fact that the tape was not loaded correctly by the camera used to record footage."

So, looks like the footage is lost. Maybe I should try it on a Z7 ...
Dave Lammey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2011, 03:11 AM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Albury NSW
Posts: 46
Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV

I recently solved this issue with Sony, I had multiple tapes dropping footage from x2 Z7's, and the one field record on a couple of tapes, came to be a batch of faulty tapes, so they replaced the tapes I had left from the order, about 200 all up, upon using the new stock from Sony, no issues at all.

First time I have ever experienced a batch of bad tapes.

I record onto tape now just as backup, as I have moved to Compact Flash recording now.

Cheers
Wayne Dear is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > The Long Black Line

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:41 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network