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Covering the GoPro HERO and other small Point-Of-View video cameras.


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Old October 28th, 2009, 12:37 AM   #1
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HD camera suitable for high motion useage

Hi all, I've now progressed into having paying clients for the type of video work i do and have out grown the consumer cam (Canon HF100) and need to be delivering better quality.

What i do is video Ocean Paddling Sports either from the back of a Jetski or boat. Obviously there is a high degree of camera movement in these harsh conditions which i try to minimize with careful handling and other mechanical means.

My biggest issues are Rolling Shutter from the CMOS sensors and blur when the footage is de-interlaced and then run through a Software stabilizing program like Mercalii or Deshaker.

I need the camera to run mostly in full auto mode as i only have time to operate zoom and record on/off as most of my concentration goes into getting steady footage and directing the boat/ski driver where i want to be.

So can anyone recommend suitable cameras, I'm guessing i need the following attributes in order of importance :

CCD Sensor (or do the professional CMOS cams handle RS better)
Good Optical image stabilizer
Good auto focus and auto exposure
Flash based storage (SD card etc)
High Bit rate to handle the motion
Progressive recording
Rugged/few moving parts
50 - 60fps for slowmo
Audio is optional
Would need mounting in a waterproof housing (not necessarily underwater)

Up to $5000 but low 3k if possible.

To see my videos and the problems check out this footage. THe on water footage starts a couple of minutes after the video starts.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions

Cheers Rambo
Ocean Sports Media
Ian Newland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2009, 06:21 AM   #2
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I'm thinking JVC GY- HM100, anyone have any thoughts on that??

Cheers Rambo
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Old October 29th, 2009, 12:29 AM   #3
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Gee 75 lookers and no advice, i just need to know i'm on the right track guys, surely someone must have an opinion?? Am i in the right thread or should i post this in another?

Cheers Rambo
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Old October 29th, 2009, 04:20 AM   #4
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Not everyone is online every day, so the person(s) with the answer may take a few days to even see the question. Some of the rest of us "lookers" may be interested in the answer too and keep looking just in case.
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Canon XH A1; Canon XF100; Nikon D800
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Old October 29th, 2009, 04:26 AM   #5
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Ok thanks Anne i'll be patient, just getting grumpy with my camera limitations, poor little HF100, i expect a lot from her.

Cheers rambo
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Old October 29th, 2009, 09:59 AM   #6
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I get very little in the way of rolling shutter artifacts with my Sony HC9. Even when I pan across a scene, it only occasionally results in a slight flutter. Many of the problems associated with CMOS sensors are with the playback programs, rather than the cameras. Only a few of the later software programs for HD video playback have caught up with the advances in capturing and encoding video. And of course, the speed and RAM capacity of a computer are also important for good playback and editing.

Since I began using Mirillis Splash Beta 5 for playing AVC, AVCHD and MOV video, even digital photo camera video from CMOS sensors (Canon SX1 and Sony HX1, for example), doesn't show more than a small amount of the rolling shutter problems, that I was seeing with several other well-known playing programs. Splash Beta 5 was free, but now it's been replaced by the latest free version of Splash Lite, which seems to do everything that Beta 5 did and more. The people at Mirillis obviously know what they're doing and when they make Splash Pro available in a month or so, I expect to buy it with confidence.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 12:53 PM   #7
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Thanks for your reply Steve, but as far as rolling shutter problems are concerned, i get the exact same result when played direct from the camera to a TV so i don't see how a playback software program can effect how rolling shutter is displayed. Can you explain what you mean, i seem to be missing something?

I suspect a lot of the jello in my on water footage is also caused by the optical image stabilizer in the camera once the clip is run through Mercalli, especially from the vertical movement of the camera.

Anyway getting off topic a bit, back to camera suggestions.

Cheers Rambo
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Old October 30th, 2009, 07:49 PM   #8
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Ian, when you say that you get the exact same result when played direct from the camera to a TV, do you mean that you see rolling shutter problems then, or that you don't see them? When my digital photo cameras send an interlaced HD video output to a TV, it looks better than playback on a computer screen and has the fewest CMOS artifacts.

The output processors in the cameras are apparently able to correct most of the CMOS flutter caused with rapid motion, by re-structuring the timing of each line and the pixels on it. The better software playback programs must be doing the same thing. How else can I view moving subjects from video I shot with a Canon SX1 and a Sony HX1, that show little or no jerking and flutter, if the Mirillis Splash program isn't doing that? It contains all its own required codecs and doesn't need to borrow them from other programs to function properly. I've noticed that some other recently updated playback programs are showing less flutter than they once did with this footage, so there is a general improvement in decoding programs.

If someone else has a better explanation about how CMOS flutter is handled by decoding programs, I'd appreciate learning the details. It's unclear to me, how my Sony HC9, which has a CMOS, is able to show so little motion flutter, even with older playback programs. Perhaps my having a quad-core CPU and a good Nvidia graphics card, is part of the reason.

You might want to look into getting a steadying rig for shooting from a boat, the same type that allows you to walk and even run and still produce smooth footage. One model that has impressed me with the results I see online, is the Hague MMC stabilizer. You can read about it and see some sample videos on this forum thread: http://www.vimeo.com/groups/sx1/forumthread:4288


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Newland View Post
Thanks for your reply Steve, but as far as rolling shutter problems are concerned, i get the exact same result when played direct from the camera to a TV so i don't see how a playback software program can effect how rolling shutter is displayed. Can you explain what you mean, i seem to be missing something?

I suspect a lot of the jello in my on water footage is also caused by the optical image stabilizer in the camera once the clip is run through Mercalli, especially from the vertical movement of the camera.

Anyway getting off topic a bit, back to camera suggestions.

Cheers Rambo
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 02:45 PM   #9
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The Sanyo HD1010 works well in our racing applications.

Also, HD Helmet Camera and 1080p HD Helmet Cam - ContourHD by VholdR sells a new 1080p bullet cam called the 'ContourHD" I've been using their 1280x720 cameras in racing applications with great success.

it's high definition, albeit in HDV data rates, but the stability, durability and reliability have made them a good choice for us.

Have a look.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 03:13 PM   #10
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Steve thanks for your reply but it's a new main camera i'm looking for not a video playback software. Using a device like the Hague at 15KPH on the back of a jet ski on a very rough ocean with 20Knots winds is not likely to be very successful, the wind alone will rotate the gimbal. Gyro's work (Kenyan) i have tried them. but limited due to weight.

Craig, thank you for your suggestion, i'm already sponsored by GoPro cameras and use them as you can see in the above video mounted on the skis. ContourHD is not waterproof, no good for me.

One thing i have discovered is the better Pro Cameras handle CMOS Jello better than Consumer Cams, so CMOS not written off yet.

Still looking for suggestions or recommendations on a main cam

Short list is HMC150 CCD (152 in Au) and the HMC 40 3MOS (41 in AU)

Cheers Rambo
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Old November 11th, 2009, 03:59 AM   #11
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Just to close this off i bought the Pana HMC 152.

Had to go elsewhere for help and advice but i will report my results here in case someone else needs information and the benefit of others experiences,

Thank you to the people that responded
Cheers Ian
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