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Old October 16th, 2011, 12:39 PM   #1
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Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Hello
I have the HD Cam, a little Marshall 5" 16x9 monitor and a Nanoflash to record it on probably at 100mbs 720 60P. My son and I are going to spend a day and a half on Lake Mead in 1st week of Nov (brrrr at night camped) and try to get some good footage at various speeds on the lake with various consistent wind patterned water conditions. We have a lower profile great performance boat together that can cruise comfortably at faster speeds through the right conditions.

Yesterday I was checking the Replay's angle of view from using the suction mount with riser on front tip of the boat. You just see enough tip of the front gel coat of the boat to make it worthwhile being there rather than a "flying" look to that footage.

I assumed the little bit of prior walking several blocks with the Replay to check motion that I did the day prior, that it was in 1080 30P. That's what the monitor was showing each time before clicking the info display off. Footage was jerky and had figured and planned to shoot in 720 60P on the water. So I cycle through the buttons on back of the Replay and had the lights confirming I was now in 720 and the field monitor as well.

But I was expecting the angle of view to get narrower, like I'm sure I have seen in illustrations on the issue with POV camera decisions. Instead....it got way wider. Even to the point of having some bending of lines depending on the angles. 720 is a more narrow angle isn't it? Then I go back to 1080 and it's narrower and shorter like I would have expected to see when I first swiched.

Further, I had just spoken earlier in the day with Dan Keaton at Convergence about another "format" question in the Nano's menu, and he had told me the Nano would always display in the bottom front of its LCD what format it was receiving. I forgot to look while recording a new walk around with 720 60P selected, but on playback the Nano was reading 1080i interlaced. As was the projector.

Anyway I called Dan back and we can't figure it out while he's looking at the Replay instructions too and we cycle through the buttons again. Then the camera battery died, but he suggested trying the Reset button on the Replay. If I did do a reset, how long do you hold, and would I have it turned on first I'm guessing? Doesn't say in the manual, or I missed it twice.

Thanks for any thoughts

Ron


Edit: OK I did another test today with the Nanoflash being fed instead from Sony PMW 320 that the Nano was most importantly purchased to be used with, and if I switch the camcorder format from 1080i to 720 60P, yep the Nano shows the 720P on its screen. And I fired up the Replay HD again and no matter whether I have it outputting 1080 30P or 720 60P..... the Nano reads 1080i on both of them?? And still, the really wide angle of view is happening on the 720P setting, completely opposite of what I confirmed with another search today that would be expected to happen. I think I saw 720P would be around 95 degrees with one POV camera and 130 degrees with it on 1080 30P. Guess I will be calling Replay XD support tomorrow to see what they make of the situation. We did however get three good mounting locations on the boat figured out. Just keeping fingers crossed for right combinations of wind, water and hopefully for cherry on top of the sundae some interesting clouds in sky too. Why not!

Last edited by Ron Fabienke; October 16th, 2011 at 05:29 PM. Reason: addtl. information
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Old October 17th, 2011, 03:52 AM   #2
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Ron, i think you will find the HDMI out is interlaced no matter what mode and will probably be 1080 in both 720 and 1080 mode on the camera. The in-camera SD card recording will be progressive though and in the correct resolution.

This is pretty common for low cost cameras like GOPro, Replay, Contour etc.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 07:40 AM   #3
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Fabienke View Post
had the lights confirming I was now in 720...But I was expecting the angle of view to get narrower...Instead....it got way wider...720 is a more narrow angle isn't it?...I think I saw 720P would be around 95 degrees with one POV camera and 130 degrees with it on 1080 30P
According to the Replay website, the angle of view is 135 degrees in 720p/960p/photo mode and 110.5 degrees in 1080p mode. BTW, the GoPro HD, too, is much wider when in 720p mode: It's 170 degrees vs. "only" 127 degrees in 1080p.
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Old October 17th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #4
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Thanks for your response Ian. "Bleep" if that is true, but I have to call them and confirm. Information on their site seems to say you get the output of what the format is:

"Live Action via HDMI
Replay XD1080 is the first to stream full 1080P HD through the built-in HDMI out connector. You can record and stream your video simultaneously or just stream your video straight to an external HD recorder.
Compatible with: Live streaming via HDMI microwave, WiFi, 4G Transmitters & HDMI In HD Recording Decks."

OK I just called and spoke with a support person and he confirmed his info was that you should get the format exactly you've chosen out of the HDMI connector per what his engineers have told him. But he is going to check back with them. Maybe their is a firmware update needed (although I just purchased this from them about 3 weeks ago).

Also he confirmed on this camera and imaging chip that 720P IS the wider angle of view...... 130 degrees vs 110 for 1080P. All POV cameras must not be alike in this regard as I have seen including yesterday. I also rechecked Contour camera and GoPro and they are similar. My bad on that.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 02:15 PM   #5
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Still waiting to hear back from tech support today on whether it is correct that the HDMI as they advertise, allows 1080 30P or 720 60P or whatever else chosen to come through to the Nanoflash. Or if as Ian suggested above it will only pass 1080i. Hope it's not the latter but I guess I would still opt for that with 100mbs bit rate vs the much lower bit rate allowed on the internal card in the progressive modes. Footage will be displayed on high quality projector at 8.5' wide 16x9 image.

Are there other Replay HD owners here that have used the HDMI to an external recorder? What did you find that it would pass?

Thanks

Ron
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Old October 19th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #6
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

No one besides me cares about what you get out of HDMI port on this camera, or is using a Nanoflash with it?? Come on guys help me out here. They say one thing on their website, plus the support person I talk to agrees with it according to what he understood from their engineers....that you get the same exact format passed from HDMI as you choose for the Replay HD to output to its internal card, if using it. Which I am not.

Instead I'm getting 1080i. Ian above was kind enough to reply he thinks that is the case, you only get 1080i on this unit and these type cameras. But since Monday 2 days ago on that issue only, it has been nothing more here or from their support at Replay but the sound of crickets chirping. I have emailed them again. I have called and left another message.

This is not a small issue for me and I have an expensive, not without peril, one day trip coming up on a big lake (Mead) in a low profile boat that is a bow seater as well, which is like a big "bucket" if you chop the top of a swell off at speed.

I apologize I got the angles of view backwards above between 1080 30P and 720 60P. Can someone else who has used a Nano with the Replay please post what your experience has been with the output from HDMI on the Replay?

Thanks again
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Old October 20th, 2011, 05:28 AM   #7
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

I haven't recorded off the Replay's HDMI port. I used it only a few times to check framing. In actual use there's nothing connected to the camera. It's mounted in a small radio-controlled helicopter.

In this application, the Replay provides a very small and lightweight imaging solution. Connecting a recorder to it would defeat the purpose. A 32-GB card will record a bit more than 6 hours of footage at 1080p30. It's heavily compressed but that's not unexpected for such a small HD camera.

My only regret is the battery life being limited to 2 hours. So the only thing I might connect to it would be a small external battery for extended coverage. That would be when I'm using it to cover other POV's on boats, etc.

I can't figure out why 720p is wider than 1080p. And, as mentioned, it's the same way with the GoPro Hero.
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Old October 21st, 2011, 05:35 PM   #8
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Fabienke View Post
No one besides me cares about what you get out of HDMI port on this camera, or is using a Nanoflash with it?? Come on guys help me out here. They say one thing on their website, plus the support person I talk to agrees with it according to what he understood from their engineers....that you get the same exact format passed from HDMI as you choose for the Replay HD to output to its internal card, if using it. Which I am not.

Instead I'm getting 1080i. Ian above was kind enough to reply he thinks that is the case, you only get 1080i on this unit and these type cameras. But since Monday 2 days ago on that issue only, it has been nothing more here or from their support at Replay but the sound of crickets chirping. I have emailed them again. I have called and left another message.

This is not a small issue for me and I have an expensive, not without peril, one day trip coming up on a big lake (Mead) in a low profile boat that is a bow seater as well, which is like a big "bucket" if you chop the top of a swell off at speed.

I apologize I got the angles of view backwards above between 1080 30P and 720 60P. Can someone else who has used a Nano with the Replay please post what your experience has been with the output from HDMI on the Replay?

Thanks again
Ive recorded some with the Atomos, I cant seem to be able to deinterlace it, I think everything sent over hdmi will be interlaced at 60i
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Old October 21st, 2011, 09:11 PM   #9
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Hi Phil
I did finally today talk to the same person in tech support. Problem was there are only several people handling support and they were out of town most of the week on a special shoot.

However, he told me with the Replay HD unit they have confirmed they pass the progressive formats through HDMI. Although it may be on the most recent firmware. I just got mine from them like 3 weeks ago but maybe it had been boxed prior to that. We should know by Monday 10/24 what's going on but I feel a lot better now.


On another note, I was talking to one of the sales peeps today as well and found out they have a bunch of these in the link below, which allows them to shoot all damn day. They realize the need for this capability and likely will soon be offering something like this or maybe this. I ordered one from this site. Looks pretty damn slick!! You charge it up prior to going out and then the USB connection runs the Replay all day. Woohoo!!

RichardSolo 9000 mAh Mobile Charger for iPhone, iPad, iPod, Smartphones
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Old October 21st, 2011, 10:20 PM   #10
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

That's a handy gadget!

However, be careful if you're powering the Replay via USB.

The connector -- either the cable or the socket in the camera -- is small and vulnerable to damage. My connector became "flaky" with just moderate use: downloading files and recharging. It also powered the camera when it was mounted inside the car, but even that was strictly light duty.

So be sure to tie down the USB cable to the body of the camera to avoid straining the connector at all.

They're coming up with a screw-on back cap that has a power cable built into it. That would provide the necessary strain relief. I think it also plugs into a 12-volt cigarette lighter socket.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 11:54 AM   #11
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

^^^ What I had been actually worrying about is the mini HDMI coming out. I bought a 3 meter mini to mini and also 3 meter mini to full size HDMI. One of the positions on the boat I will use is directly mounted to top of our ski pole which sticks up about 2 feet above the upholstered engine cover in back. The cables are not the thinnest diameter and have a little weight, so I was already concerned about need to guy those up on the same pole to keep it from dipping downward on its way out of the Replay.

Before I ordered that neat little unit I first checked to make sure the mini USB fit into its slot at the same time as HDMI was in. Happily the USB is really snug and actually provides support for the HDMI as well keeping it straight out. I will still strain relief both as best I can for the several mounting spots we will use.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 01:44 PM   #12
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

As long as there's good strain relief to keep either connector from moving it should be OK.

Also, protect that back end from moisture as it's unprotected without the rear cap in place. Maybe wrap it with plastic in a way that water drips down and away from the camera
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 08:08 PM   #13
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Hi Ron, I'll link you some references in my next post, some of these simple HDMI out devices have odd cadences when you hit the record button. Usually it is the same format that drives the Internal LCD screen. Some are 60i, some are 59.94i and some are progressive wrapped in interlaced stream. The odd cadence is what confuses the HDMI recorder.

Of course it's possible new devices on the market could be made recordable if this is a feature they designed into the camera, but it would be a first that I know of in cameras this cheap and compact, like you, I'm also wanting to record the full output of the sensor before encoding as most of the formats suck.

Gee, you would think people that designed the camera would know for sure hey, but as is with all these simple cameras they use generic hardware with customized firmware to enable features etc.

Cheers R
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Old October 31st, 2011, 04:13 PM   #14
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

Has anyone here seen anything regarding the timecode out for these cameras? I have tried contacting support 4 or 5 times in the last week and a half and no one seems to want to talk about timecode. I need to sync the camera with a number of motion capture cameras.

Larry
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Old October 31st, 2011, 04:25 PM   #15
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Re: Replay XD HD seeming oddities?

No timecode out. Just HDMI.

To sync you can use the time stamp on the filename to provide clip matching. But for the actual sync point you'll have to resort to old-style slating of the shot.
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