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(MPG4) Sanyo Xacti (all models)
A compact 720p MPEG4 digital media camera recording to SD Card.

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Old August 29th, 2007, 08:14 PM   #1
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check this out
Kamin Tehrani is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 08:27 AM   #2
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You got in before me, some more details:
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Old August 30th, 2007, 10:39 AM   #3
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Sanyo HD 1000 is 1080i

Not a 1080p, but...
see http://www.sanyodigital.com/product.aspx?v=17
it is, however, the smallest one!
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Old August 30th, 2007, 11:04 AM   #4
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Seems like engadget are saying 1080p / 8 Megapixels and everybody else including Sanyo is saying 1080i / 4 Megapixels.

Hope I'm wrong.
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Old August 31st, 2007, 07:22 AM   #5
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Playing the same game as before with image stabilisation by the looks of things. From the pdf:
"Zoom 38-380mm and for Video 49.7-497mm" (35mm equiv)
So on video, no wide angle...
I really wish they'd make up their mind what market they're aiming at and drop the flash and stills rubbish.
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Old September 1st, 2007, 02:36 AM   #6
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Bigger & Bigger

Looks like an impressive camera. The black one is very 'attractive'. There will be a wireless microphone available for it soon. The larger lens should make it more capable in darker conditions.
But .... the main thing I like about Xacti's is their size. I can wear my C1 & HD1a on my belt using their handy cases. The Xacti 1000, however, seems too large for this to be a comfortable option. In fact they only supply a soft carry pouch with the camera - so they don't expect it to be worn in that manner. The more usual case is available as an extra I think - still a bit too chunky to be worn on your belt, in my opinion.
So Sanyo, don't go any larger than this when you design the next Xacti !.
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Old September 1st, 2007, 10:09 AM   #7
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Please for an 1.0-1.2 aperture lens, but I think they have made it big enough to go to 1.4 in future. Actually detachable 4thirds version would be nice.

(re-edit) An new camera idea:

Of lens, I posted (I think) an article on an new flat lens technique and while ago. Great stuff it is flat like an piece of plastic, bounces the light around diagonally in the plastic until; it comes out the right spot. The basic lens is for consumer electronics, but I can imagine, if you combined this technique, you could make bigger format lens systems allot smaller. Imagine of an 10x zoom lens+flange, was 1cm thick, and rotated with sensor around sideways to sit flat with the body. You could carry 35m format lens Xacti (4/3rds would be enough for them) in the same size as the old HD2. You could even have an LCD display on the back of the lens+image sensor section, turn on just swivel the lens + display into position.

Now, if Sanyo, or Red could do that, it would be an sensation.
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Old September 14th, 2007, 07:49 AM   #8
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There are samples of 1080i video from the Sanyo HD1000 at http://techvideoblog.com/ifa/sanyo-hd1000/ and http://mihd.net/i6twek. I found the links at http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...79&forum_id=27. There are also some photos taken by the camera at that thread.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 05:19 PM   #9
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I suppose before such a long post I should introduce myself. I am a student, although not of a field related to videography.

Whether I should be is debatable. My only history of using video is in using a monochrome, VCR-tethered toy camera, with fixed focus and no settings to adjust. I own a digital camera but not a camcorder, nor an HDTV. I watch all my high definition video on a PC.

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis View Post
I really wish they'd make up their mind what market they're aiming at and drop the flash and stills rubbish.
Personally, I value the convenience of being able to carry one device in my pocket for both video and stills, in case an unexpected opportunity arrives. That is why I have not bought a dedicated HDV camcorder - apart from the Canon HV10, none are anywhere near that small. Even though I would prefer to use tape for storage, I still wait for a good enough smaller hybrid device (which may of course never arrive). [Disclaimer - I have never used a tape based camcorder regularly, but I have, and am suffering the loss/corruption of data stored on my HDD and DVD-Rs for an unknown reason].

Convenience may be the selling point of these hybrid cameras, and rightly or wrongly, Sanyo is targeting the consumer market. If not for stills, Sanyo and other manufacturers might not still be making them.

To me, the Xacti cameras seem the modern day equivalent of Cine film, in their limited stills ability, low light performance, ergonomics and macro ability (for example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hirosan/189905393/). I am a "consumer", but am not satisfied with what passes for "consumer" quality. The macro blocking visible with the HD1A is similar to the results of low bitrate digital television broadcasts in the UK (3-4Mbps 576i50 MPEG2), except with the diagonal problem (fixed by the HD2). I was disappointed to read that in this forum that the quality of the HD1's video was considered better than the quality of HDTV broadcasts in the US! I want better quality than that.

I first started observing the development of high definition consumer camcorders a few years ago with the JVC GR-HD1, which seemed to produce poor quality video in low light. From the samples posted in various forums it seemed an example of a range of video quality problems, including edge enhancement. Sony's HDR-FX1's footage was a vast improvement by comparison, when I was able to judge it properly with unprocessed footage, although too inconvenient and expensive for me to consider purchasing. Although later the HC1 and HC3 were more compact, the quality didn't seem as good to me, or was in some way less interesting. Perhaps it was a result of the CMOS sensors in the newer camcorders.

I was more interested in Sanyo's line of 720p cameras, and I spent time evaluating each video sample posted on this forum.

Although most of the footage shot with the HD1 was poor quality due to the prevalent macro blocking, some underwater footage taken with the HD1A looked very good. Footage from a zoo (perhaps the same one as one of the underwater clips was recorded, I don't know) also looked good in places, although I could not ignore the macro blocking with was present in these clips. Some footage taken from a car with the HD2 in good light looked to be even better than footage from the HD1, although there was also some poorer quality footage from the UK (which was actually not very far from where I live) in lower light which was acceptable, but not particularly good. I must point out that I do not necessarily like the stuttery look of 720p30 video, and I would probably choose 720p60 if the bitrate was high enough, although as I am yet to buy a camcorder capable of this, or indeed any camcorder, I cannot say for sure whether I would do this. Of course, I would like the option of having a 720p60 mode which the HD1000 has, but not before a higher bitrate.

While I think the previous Sanyo camera didn't deliver very good video or stills except in good light (as unfortunately seems the curse of all hybrid products), I don't see why a good enough hybrid camera can't be made. I don't think my requirements are excessive - I require reasonable quality stills (better than from a phone, but I would prefer good stills at 2MP to noisy stills at 7MP, for example) and video without visible compression artifacts at 720p. This would be all possible if Sanyo introduced a variable or high bitrate mode, and reduced the megapixel count of the camera. I am disappointed that there is no way for the user to improve the bitrate of the camera - if only as much attention was placed on improving this product as other consumer products such as the PSP and iPhone, we might be able to flash the firmware for a higher bitrate mode.

The Canon TX1, with a lower megapixel count and a high bitrate h.264/avc encoder would be perfect for this, as it is more compact than the HD1/2/1000 and has an image stabiliser for video and stills, as well as the 10x optical zoom of the Xacti, athough I have not noticed any comment on how much this stabiliser reduces the quality of images with the TX1, nor yet the HD1000. At present Canon's effort is a camera with video functionality, rather than the other way around - 14 minutes is not enough time for me to be able to record on a 4GB card, and as far as I know there is no way of shooting for longer than that on an 8GB, 16GB, etc., card. Perhaps if it was 35Mbp/s MPEG2 then I would tolerate it - it may be that I would never shoot anything worth watching longer than that, so if the editing functionality was good and I had a lot of time, or if I had a portable hard disk with USB host support or the ability to copy data from SD cards to it directly, the TX1 would be an option. If the 4GB limit is just under 4GB, it would make it easier to buy one of these portable drives, since I wouldn't need to look for NTFS support. As it is, the quality of the video in terms of compression artefacts is sometimes good enough, depending on the complexity of the scene, much like the Sanyo HD2. It is, however, very noisy in low to medium light situations (or so I can guess, as I have not actually seen the level of illumination with my own eyes).

Aiptek's GO-HD and A-HD models are yet another possibility, although I doubt whether the GO-HD would be acceptable for many in this group due to the lack of manual controls. I know little of the A-HD. Aiptek's 720p cameras have been discussed widely in the Steve's DigiCams forum, although I have to say I prefer this forum, as many of the posters here have high quality requirements. It only has 3x optical zoom, which could be compared favourably with the HD2 considering that I would not be using it on a tripod very often, and I would be reluctant to use the HD2's image stabiliser, which reduces the quality of the video, so 10x zoom would be unwatchable anyway. Is it as bad as the stabiliser on the HD1A? This is possibly the only reason why I would need the HD1000's 1080i mode - to apply stabilising using software without having to upscale the video in order to watch it on a 720p monitor or HDTV.

I would definitely want to avoid using digital zoom by mistake, although I am disappointed that smart zoom is not possible(?) with video on hybrid cameras. At present I am still using a several years old Canon PowerShot A20, and on this I can avoid using digital zoom by turning the screen off and using the optical viewfinder. I must say I will miss being able to use an optical viewfinder, especially now that the Sanyo cameras no longer have OLED screens which would be (supposedly) more visible in sunlight, but I would rather have higher quality video with the Xacti line of cameras than the
addition of an optical viewfinder.

However, having watched samples from the Aiptek GO-HD, as has been commented on the Steve's DigiCams forum, the outdoor video quality is worse than the indoor quality, which I guess is the result of using a CMOS sensor. Video outdoors is significantly affected by the h.264 compression - I watched a video of a dog which looked like a watercolour with the removal of detail. Outdoor features such as wires seem to be loosely drawn by the camera rather than captured. Also, the camera has the same diagonal macro blocking problem as the HD1 had.

From viewing the Sanyo HD1000 samples so far, I can see very visible compression artefacts in 1080i mode (I have to run by SXGA monitor in virtual 1920x1080 to do this, and pan around the video), but these are less visible when scaling this to 720p, although still present. Those who don't know what artefacts to look for may miss them, I suppose, and sometimes I feel that ignorance of the compression artefacts is bliss. Am I evaluating the quality of the camera, or looking for defects? I would have preferred to have the option of a higher, or variable bitrate mode, as with all of Sanyo's Xacti line of cameras, and would definitely want to see how the camera handles more challenging footage before buying it. The sky in the second sample (http://mihd.net/i6twek) looks overexposed to me - perhaps I am too sensitive to this, but I wonder whether the sensor (CMOS) has a lower latitude than the sensor used in previous models (CCD).
Christopher Quigley is offline  
Old September 19th, 2007, 09:32 AM   #10
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Anyone want to bet that the United States will only get one color option? And since I like the black model, I can garantee that the black model will not make it to the U.S
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Old September 20th, 2007, 01:57 AM   #11
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Christopher Quigley is very candid about his lack of direct experience with the subject matter and finally asks "Am I evaluating the quality of the camera, or looking for defects?"

Of course he and others are entirely within their rights to focus their attention on technical details, but it saddens me to think that technical limitations (which have always been with us) would stop anyone from making the best possible use of the equipment that is currently available.

Long ago, when I was a photographer at LIFE magazine, many were concerned with the limitations of 35mm. Where would photography be today if they hadn't gone ahead and used it anyway?

I have been using the Sanyo HD1, HD2 and the Canon TX1 since they came out. I have the HD1000 on order. While I am aware of their limitations, I would be really unhappy if I didn't have the wonderful images that they have produced. I enjoy them on a 60 inch Sony HDTV and am blissfully unaware of macro blocking and other flaws that can be seen if you are determined to find them.

I would like to see us concentrate on how to get the most out of what is available, rather than on finding flaws and wishing for the currently unobtainable.
Peter Solmssen is offline  
Old September 21st, 2007, 02:44 AM   #12
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Playback codecs and mediaplayer ?

how do you playback the posted HD1000 MP4 files ?
When I try the newsest VideoLan player 8.6c or
Mediaplayer Classic with FFDShow codecs,it does not work.

DoI need to download and install Quicktime for Windows to
play these clips ?

The one musicvideo which was posted at Hd1000.com
looks very nice, but it was rescaled to 960 x 540 or something like this,
so I would like to watch the original MP4 files from the camera.

Many thanks.
Stefan Hartmann is offline  
Old September 22nd, 2007, 11:38 PM   #13
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Worked fine for me using Mediaplayer Classic, with the CoreAVC codec installed: http://www.coreavc.com/
Graham Hickling is offline  

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