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(MPG4) Sanyo Xacti (all models)
A compact 720p MPEG4 digital media camera recording to SD Card.


 
 
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Old February 20th, 2006, 09:39 PM   #256
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Pro-sumer is a weird word... entry level professional more like. I dont see a lot of consumers using them and the vast majority of people are using them to make a living with. I am all for pushing the limits with available tools, I will probably get an HD1 to play around with, but not for serious work, maybe a quirky shot that is not possible with a bigger camera. I surely wont be looking for a 4X4 filter adapter or a matte box =o)



ash =o)
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Old February 20th, 2006, 10:17 PM   #257
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I have no idea what you're talking about, I'm perfectly happy with my pro HD1 setup... .

http://www.starcentral.ca/dvinfo/prohd1.jpg
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Old February 20th, 2006, 10:43 PM   #258
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LOL... where are the rods? Do you have to have a elf pull focus?




ash =o)
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Old February 21st, 2006, 12:12 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Greyson
Pro-sumer is a weird word... entry level professional more like. I dont see a lot of consumers using them and the vast majority of people are using them to make a living with. I am all for pushing the limits with available tools, I will probably get an HD1 to play around with, but not for serious work, maybe a quirky shot that is not possible with a bigger camera. I surely wont be looking for a 4X4 filter adapter or a matte box =o)
Or top end consumer cameras modified ;).

I find the footage less than desirable for professional use too, but it is fun measuring and prodding it to get an indication of what to expect from the more advanced cameras next month.

You'll notice that a lot of people have been saying that it is worth keeping in your pocket for the odd on the spare of the moment shot that they can't get in time with their pro cams (news worthy shoot I guess, but also family shoots I imagine).

About the noise, ignore the first batches of clips that Joseph did in auto, the ones he did after that are improved out of sight (though still less than pro level) as they have little noise and better exposure, and this has helped compression enormously. The Japanese ones are also a good example (the water ones being the worse).


---------------------------------------------------

As far as Mini DV being better goes, I got no doubt that with motion this maybe the case, but I put this challenge down to anybody that wants to take it up:

Take the same shoot with and without motion, with both a DV camera and this camera, and display the HD at DV resolution (720*480) alongside the Mini-DV footage and compare for compression artifacts. Convert both to DVD, which is the common distribution format for many with this camera, and compare on a computer monitor. Now compare on an average CRT TV set, that usually has around 360 pixel resolution across. What you will find is that the MiniDV footage may win the first round, but once you get to DVD, you might find it the other way, once you get to display it on those cheap TV, you probably will find either they are very close, or that the HD1 wins. Why, because the lower res hides some of the compression faults, the lower you go the less they are obvious. The HD1 frame is not whole divisible by the DV frame, so macron block edges are going to be blurred somewhat, and compression problems a little. DVD works, generally, at lower bit rate than the HD1, and suffers some of the same compression problems, which it should also introduce to the conversion of the MiniDV footage, lowering the compression artifact difference, but also allowing the extra HD detail to contribute. At cheap TV resolution, now even the contents of the macro block should be obscured, the resolution is a straight division of DV resolution, so this will advantage the Mini-DV footage, as one way of coping with too much information in Mini-DV is to drop the resolution in half. So it could be suitable for some things.

Have a go, and prove me wrong.


Joseph,

25Mb/s h264, now that would be a descent HD format.

Dennis,

That is simply amazing! ;)
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Old February 21st, 2006, 02:41 AM   #260
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An other side

1 - Can you find a cam (even DV) with a complete exposure manual setting, two half-auto modes (Aperture priority and Shutter priority) for less than 800$ ?
2 - Do you appreciate that this cam is very very small and is able to deliver HD (in controlled conditions), and still photo comparable to dedicated cams ?

But, for me the best :
This cam has a picture signature : because of its specific artifacts, clips are immediatly identifiable and artisticaly satisfactory. We all want to record clips like baby child and late Joseph with their unique color balance. This could be the equivalent of polaro´d little cams loved by some professionals. Its a challenge to deliver a beautiful clip within the limits of the tool, and to share this experience with others.

Luc-Henri
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Old February 21st, 2006, 02:49 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini
Steve, what computer/speed are you running it on? Whats your impression of the clips, are we looking at the next HD10?
I was using my G4 iBook with 1GRAM which handles 720p30 in RT perfectly.

The clips play with audio in the Source, but once in the Timeline there is no audio because the Sanyo's audio is packed with the video -- just like HDV. We need a utility that pulls out the audio into an AIFF file. Just like in the good old days with the JVC! :)

+++++++++++

>>>>> Like the 720p30 JVC -- the exposure of the Sanyo MUST be locked at 1/30th second. You need motion blur to overcome the strobing artifacts from shooting at 30fps. So you MUST use S mode. <<<<<<

+++++++++++

I'm completely confused by the concept of setting ISO! All video cameras have a FIXED, small, range of sensitivity that depend on the where on the gamma curve the light input is. You can't change this sensitivity range! So what is Sanyo doing when select ISO?

Is this Sanyo's way of setting video GAIN? Which means "50" would be zero gain.

If so, then every doubling of ISO is equal to +6dB gain.
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Old February 21st, 2006, 02:57 AM   #262
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Steve, On my Powerbook G4 1.5 1G, I only get an acceptable result (720p mp4) with the VLC freeware, QT Player does not works well. For h264 (movie trailers) QTP is the best.

I agree with the S 1/30, but the min aperture is 8 and the ND filter is just one level. The last Joseph S30 panoramic is a little bit overexposed.

Luc-Henri

Last edited by Luc-Henri Barthelemy; February 21st, 2006 at 06:16 AM.
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Old February 21st, 2006, 07:36 AM   #263
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To further Wayne's point I'm going to take some of Josephs clips and convert them to DVD format just to see them and watch on my 42" plasma... I can also put the ISO on my site so others can download it, burn and watch too.

Anyone have any good suggestions as far as DVD burning software HD clips? I have a few but they don't know what to do with 16:9 footage and I prefer not to have to put the clips through after effects just to resize. I want a straight process if possible. I'm using PC.
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Old February 21st, 2006, 07:40 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
I was using my G4 iBook with 1GRAM which handles 720p30 in RT perfectly.

The clips play with audio in the Source, but once in the Timeline there is no audio because the Sanyo's audio is packed with the video -- just like HDV. We need a utility that pulls out the audio into an AIFF file. Just like in the good old days with the JVC! :)
So, would a dual 1.66 Ghz MacBook Pro be able to edit it with room to spare? The debate now is what will we need to edit the h264 from the next gen pocket cameras coming next month (yep one month, one mpeg4 generation, who would have thought it four years ago).

What do you think of the quality of the footage people are now getting?
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Old February 21st, 2006, 07:54 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Hingsberg
To further Wayne's point I'm going to take some of Josephs clips and convert them to DVD format just to see them and watch on my 42" plasma... I can also put the ISO on my site so others can download it, burn and watch too.

Anyone have any good suggestions as far as DVD burning software HD clips? I have a few but they don't know what to do with 16:9 footage and I prefer not to have to put the clips through after effects just to resize. I want a straight process if possible. I'm using PC.
Thanks, your Plasma should be at least 852 pixels across, so you should get full DVD res through component. Is Nero Recode any good, or is it like most?

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/ar...frameserve.htm
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Old February 21st, 2006, 08:14 AM   #266
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I'm getting very busy with work again, so time is very limited. I don't know anyone here who wants to be in clip posted on the internet, but if I find someone I will. What h264 pocket camera is going to be out next month?
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Old February 21st, 2006, 08:35 AM   #267
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Wayne, MacBook Pro are now 1.83 Ghz min (They changed before sending them to first users). They are said very powerful on the HD field : able to display 1080p without drops. (better than the 2x2Ghz Powermac G5).
I did some edit tests with Imovie HD 5 IDVD 5 and the available Sanyo clips : that works well on my 2x2Ghz Powermac G5, very slow on my PB G4 1.5.
You can easily create a DVD playable from the 720p clips downsized at the DVD resolution.

Luc-Henri
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Old February 21st, 2006, 08:55 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Aurili
I'm getting very busy with work again, so time is very limited. I don't know anyone here who wants to be in clip posted on the internet, but if I find someone I will. What h264 pocket camera is going to be out next month?
The news items on the Ambarella, state that cameras will be announced next month, and I think this is when the chip is becoming available to market.

I would like to see what Panasonic, JVC are doing first but I might be getting a h264 in the next couple of months, maybe even a Red camera by the end of the year.


Luc-Henri

I forgot to mention, there is the possibility that the new Ibook coming in the next month or two might be dual 1.6Ghz, but that is only a rumour going around for the last x months. We can only hope that Apple has the sense to do this.
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Old February 21st, 2006, 08:58 AM   #269
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"Anyone have any good suggestions as far as DVD burning software HD clips? I have a few but they don't know what to do with 16:9 footage and I prefer not to have to put the clips through after effects just to resize. I want a straight process if possible. I'm using PC."

Denis, I burnt some of Joseph's MPEG4 to DVD using Sonic DVDit 6 set in NTSC mode (in PAL mode it hung).

On my 21" ultrascan computer monitor the encode appeared to be flawless.

Sure, I don't know beyond that - but I often see some kind of encode degradation on this monitor and this time I didn't see any. Watching the disc was no different than watching the original file.

Yes, 16:9 just encodes automatically.
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Old February 21st, 2006, 09:07 AM   #270
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Wayne, I would most likley get any h264 poket camera as soon as it is available, as long as it's at least 720p. What is a "Red camera"?
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