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Old September 3rd, 2008, 01:02 PM   #136
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...tax reasons (the theory goes like this: over 5 min = video camera / under 5 mins = stills camera - video pays more tax)
No, no, no. As I mentioned before, this is complete nonsense. There are plenty of other digital still cameras that have video modes which are not limited to five minutes, and those cameras are certainly not "taxed as camcorders."
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 01:25 PM   #137
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A fellow went to a nikon d90 event in Japan last week just to test if it had manual control in movie mode. The answer is YES, as long as the AE-L button is held. What does this mean? Well it means you can lock exposure, but you may have to rig up something to hold the button down.

Also, The person who went to the event asked about the 5-minute recording time and if it was because of sensor over-heat.
The response was that the 5-minute recording time is not because of the risk of sensor overheating problems at all, it is by design (for some reason?) There isn't any lag time if you record for 5-minutes, you can record for 5-minutes after that no problems.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 01:55 PM   #138
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The lower resolution movie modes have a 20 minute limit according to the D90 preview on dpreview.com

After talking about it on other fora, I'm ready to believe it has to do with a file size limit. if only Nikon would open a new file when it reaches this limit ... or better yet, allow a programmable file split size. I'm sure we don't want to drag 2 GByte files around.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 02:16 PM   #139
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"5min shooting limitation is not due to chip set overheat nor live view screen overheat. It is programmed that way. This, I don't understand why but I did try shooting pretty long time (not 5min) then stop and shoot again. It did work and did not seem to present any problem at all."

Looks like he didn't quite get to five mins. Not to quibble, because it doesn’t settle whether or not Nikon may have imposed a runtime limit on D-Movie mode.

So I checked the D90 specs at Nikon's site (webpage, sell-sheet PDF & multipage brochure PDF) and none of them mention a 5-minute runtime limit.

Now, as a filmmaker, I'm confident I'll shoot no 5-minute takes with this or most cameras. But Nikon's glossy brochure devotes some space (grids, specs) talking about storage-card capacity. It's possible that any runtime limit on D-Movie mode may have been an arbitrary cutoff, chosen in the belief that the D90 will sell mostly to stills shooters. I.e., "who'll need more than 5 minutes for a video clip?"

Well, you & I may (or may not), but we come from the world of motion & are used to unlimited runtimes. If such a limit exists in the D90, filmmakers' enthusiasm for the D90 could prompt Nikon to update firmware or hardware to extend any runtime limit.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 02:24 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis View Post
The lower resolution movie modes have a 20 minute limit according to the D90 preview on dpreview.com

After talking about it on other fora, I'm ready to believe it has to do with a file size limit. if only Nikon would open a new file when it reaches this limit ... or better yet, allow a programmable file split size. I'm sure we don't want to drag 2 GByte files around.
I was thinking that might be the reason as well knowing that the clips I saw were around 40Mbps each. Perhaps Nikon will increase the limit if enough people say they want it. I can imagine people wanting to use this as a B camera for documentaries since it’s alleged that the exposure can be locked by rigging it.

The technology probably wasn’t ready for the D700 but imagine Nikon putting 720p in the D3X but with a higher bit rate of around 50 to 60Mbps instead of 40Mbps.

Last edited by Paulo Teixeira; September 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 PM.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 02:52 PM   #141
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Yeah, that would be great. I'd be comforted knowing they provided better downsampling to the 1280x720 image or offered 1920x1080 movies, as well as outputting an uncompressed stream over HDMI with no display information overlays. I haven't tested simultaneous HDMI and component output, but this would be very useful for monitoring while recording. Component would drive a portable monitor.

As for the aperture, I wonder if locking the aperture ring on lenses with such would work. Could the flickering come from inaccurate aperture settings on a group of frames?
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 03:29 PM   #142
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The 5 minute limitation is real from several 1stg hand reports, and is likely due to file size limitations. It's probably about 1gb at this length. It's quite possible that the camera has to hold these frames in internal memory before writing them out to the mpg file. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a little processing time before the camera is ready to shoot again.
In any case, "why" doesn't matter too much at this stage. In fact, I'd be looking at mostly special effect shots in the under 30 sec range, so this limit feels generous to me.

The D90 has lens compatibility like D70, D80 etc, less than D200/300 but better than D40.
This means older manual focus lenses need to be shot in manual, and will probably be rejected in movie mode on this camera (darn - I've got a few fun ones... 500 mirror, lensbaby, micro). This would also mean the intervalometer flicker reduction workaround on d200/300(using aperture ring instead of electronic) is unlikely to be available on this camera. There is an AE filter to fix this in post, but of course we'd rather not have to go there.
The stepped exposure changes are ugly, but the exposure lock button workaround seems like it will cover most needs. This already probably isn't an issue on many setups anyway.

No way you consider this a replacement for a video camera, but it will provide some unique types of footage that will have some awesome applications for b-roll etc. With bleeding edge technology especially, it pays to work to the products strengths and character.

I'm excited, and plan to do jump before the end of year. My D70 intervalometer through a laptop workflow has got real old, and I was nearly about to commit to the d300. I know I'll find a way to get some exciting video clips with this unit, and that is a real bonus.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 03:34 PM   #143
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The D90 has lens compatibility like D70, D80 etc, less than D200/300 but better than D40.
This means older manual focus lenses need to be shot in manual, and will probably be rejected in movie mode on this camera
Sean, what do you mean by "rejected"? If you're right, why might that happen with manual lenses?
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 06:39 PM   #144
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From Nikon's own mouth:

Exposure is lockable, button needs to be held down by default, but menu options allow you to simply press the AE button once to lock the exposure.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 07:16 PM   #145
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Nikon would show a great deal of wisdom at this point to have someone like Adam Wilt do a handson . I believe we'll see alot more info coming out of photokina.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 11:34 PM   #146
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Not only Photokina, but also PhotoPlus Expo coming up Oct. 23-25 in NYC.

First post of this thread has been updated with a link to the official Nikon D90 product brochure.

The offer I made earlier in this thread (back around post #110 to host footage) is open to all.
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Old September 4th, 2008, 07:24 AM   #147
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I have a freind from a big uk slr retailer who i gave a list of questions to yesterday as he was off to a uk nikon event...he held the d90!..he forgot to ask questions..pardon me while i go do something really nasty to him.

Nice one lee on confirmation of exposure lock...thats a very easy workaround...I was already thinking hmmm "rubber band device" etc(lol).
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Old September 4th, 2008, 11:18 AM   #148
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Sorry but that's incorrect. It is first and foremost a digital still camera, therefore that is how it is classed for tax purposes. For example, most all non-DSLR digicams already have a video mode *without* a five-minute clip limit, and they are *not* taxed as camcorders.

Yes it is a DSLR, but shoot more than 5 minutes then it will be classed as a video camcorder. You are correct in saying other cameras have longer recording times, but not at the quality offered by Nikon. I will be getting the camera next week and will post some samples.

BTW this information was given by Nikon at the press launch - I record all press events and can play you the audio if you need confirmation.
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Old September 4th, 2008, 11:29 AM   #149
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well if there's any kernal of truth to the tax thing , then I offer Nikon some free advice - pay the extra tax and pass on the cost to the consumer , and then give us "cardcapacity" recording lengths , and everyone in the world who would buy a d90 would be tickled pink with the deal. my$1worth.k
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Old September 4th, 2008, 11:41 AM   #150
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Here is the voice of Nikon's Marketting Director in the UK

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/aa/D90.mp3
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