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Old August 30th, 2008, 01:38 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by I J Walton View Post
If it could record for any longer than 5 minutes it would be classed as a video camera.
Sorry but that's incorrect. It is first and foremost a digital still camera, therefore that is how it is classed for tax purposes. For example, most all non-DSLR digicams already have a video mode *without* a five-minute clip limit, and they are *not* taxed as camcorders.
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Old August 30th, 2008, 01:42 PM   #77
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Sorry but that's incorrect. It is first and foremost a digital still camera, therefore that is how it is classed for tax purposes. For example, most all non-DSLR digicams already have a video mode *without* a five-minute clip limit, and they are *not* taxed as camcorders.
I'm just going by what a number of people are reporting (Here in the EU anyway). The number is growing and growing.

Overheating seems like a poor excuse seeing that many people (Including myself) use Nikon DSLR's to capture 90 minute exposures for astrophotography.
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Old August 30th, 2008, 02:04 PM   #78
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I can't be the only one who, while shooting stills with an SLR, often wished they could have the same hands-on control for shooting video. Well, here it comes: the possibility of having some of that still photoraphy look and feel while shooting video. For me, it's possibily the most exciting technical convergence since you could first shoot and edit digitally on affordable gear (back in the days of DV and Win95). The potential all adds up to a lot.

It's funny; this whole thing only started a few days ago, when the forums came alive speculating about the Nikon D90 (a camera that isn't even in the shops yet), and already I'm wondering what will be coming next! If this Nikon sells really well, and the manufacturers are smart enough to know that some of the extra sales probably came from film makers, surely there will be a push for 1080p and a better data rate/codec? And it's not only Nikon who have no camcorder market to warp their business decisions: Pentax (with Samsung), Fuji and Olympus can all afford to push the boat out next year, finding a unique selling point in the already over-crowded entry level DSLR market. Of course Canon will have to "do something" if they want to stay comeptitive, and I'm sure they will. Independent self-funded film makers might now finally benefit from the mass market R&D of still photography and get to use affordable quality tools. Nice.

One thing I'm interested in is the prospect of less compromised available light shooting, because of the sensitivity you get from DSLRs. And if the small 1280 x 720 image is derived from the whole of the large 12.3 mgp sensor by binning, that should increase the sensitivity even more, shouldn't it? The Nikon D90's ISO range is impressive enough for people currently using HDV camcorders. But I wonder if the binned video image has even more sensitivity than when the camera is used in normal still image mode? Binning can also increase SNR in low light. I remember Jason Rodriquez estimated that the Viper digital cinema camera had a SNR of 54 dB (around 8-8.5 stops), while a DSLR could be 72 dB (11-12 stops), which is close to film quality. That was several years ago, and DSLRs have got better still since then (particularly utilizing "dynamic range enhancement"). There are some big gains here to off-set the small problems...
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Old August 30th, 2008, 02:21 PM   #79
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...many people (Including myself) use Nikon DSLR's to capture 90 minute exposures for astrophotography.
But that's a different thing altogether. Even during such an ultra-long exposure as the one you're describing, the camera is simply holding the shutter open for a very long time to make one image. It's not writing images 24 times per second for 90 minutes.

Think of this as a very long burst-mode. It's a continuous shooting mode, where in the past, a D-SLR might have been able to give you a maximum of 110 frames as a burst of ten frames per second over eleven seconds (I'm quoting the Canon EOS-1D Mark III here). And now the Nikon D90 will give you 7,200 images as a burst of twenty-four frames per second over 300 seconds. So yes, I can certainly believe that overheating is indeed the limiting factor here.
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Old August 30th, 2008, 02:40 PM   #80
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So, Chris—or anybody with more knowledge than me—can you hazard a guess, based on your experience with chips larger than most vidcams', how long such a beast would need to cool down?

If we wait a few days or weeks, all details will be revealed in shops, but if the thing needs another 5 mins to cool off between takes (of "burst mode," as you have it; nice analogy), it will force me to buy 2 D90s so I can keep my crew working.

Still cheap for the buck, but I'm trying to picture how to shoot movies with this thing.

For no good reason, I think of the D90 as the Red 0.5 (or maybe 0.25), but it's probably more legal to call it "Suellen" (Scarlett's little sister in "Gone With the Wind").
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Old August 30th, 2008, 02:53 PM   #81
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Beats me how long it would take to cool down after recording a five-minute HD video clip, but look at it this way... on a paying gig, in a pro environment, or anytime you're working with a crew, or wherever other people's time is involved, why would you *not* want two...? Seems to me that a backup camera in those kinds of situations is a necessity, not a luxury.
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Old August 30th, 2008, 02:58 PM   #82
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So if this "Overheat after 5 minutes" thing is true. Theoretically, if I shoot another 5 minutes after just shooting 5 minutes already (Maybe by accident) I would kill an £800 camera. Seems like too much of a risk if you ask me.

Hmm. I think I will wait until some "Guinea Pigs" try it out before I purchase :D.
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Old August 30th, 2008, 03:03 PM   #83
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@ Chris: Yeah.

Reading up on HDMI … will do 8-channels … hmm. Why'd Nikon include an AV-Out port? For the camera's remote?
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Old August 30th, 2008, 03:36 PM   #84
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...if I shoot another 5 minutes after just shooting 5 minutes already (Maybe by accident) I would kill an £800 camera.
I highly doubt this is even possible. Most likely the camera won't let you record another clip until the mandatory cool-down period is completed.
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Old August 30th, 2008, 03:38 PM   #85
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Why'd Nikon include an AV-Out port?
I can't think of one single camcorder, D-SLR or other digital still camera from a major manufacturer that currently does *not* include an AV output. They all have one. It's pretty much standard equipment across the board. There are lots of standard-definition televisions and monitors left in the world...
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Old August 30th, 2008, 05:04 PM   #86
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So AV-Out is a low-end video-out? How's it differ, generally, from HDMI? Throughput?

On the cool-down:

It's easy to imagine a few Nikon guys grinning over the idea of recording Live View:

ENGINEER 1: Look, I made a movie with it.
ENGINEER 2: Awesome! How long can you crank the chip like that?
ENGINEER 1: About ten minutes, maybe fifteen.
QC GUY (sticks his head in): Call it eight. I got too much shrinkage in Destructive Testing.
LEGAL GUY (same): Call it three.
MARKETING GUY (wedges between them): Please, give me five minutes on this thing …

Cut to a store:

RETAIL GUY: So, the amazing thing about the D90 is you can record video—
CUSTOMER: Whatever. How many megapixels is it again?

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Old August 30th, 2008, 05:15 PM   #87
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So AV-Out is a low-end video-out? How's it differ, generally, from HDMI?
AV-Out = standard definition (and analog)
HDMI = high definition (and digital)
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Old August 30th, 2008, 05:18 PM   #88
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Of course. Thanks.
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Old August 31st, 2008, 12:00 AM   #89
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Nikon D90 movie function

Here is the link -

D90 | D-MOVIE

Looks nice to shoot a movie using 10.5 fisheye or a 200 macro lens.

Just wondering how good the movie will be compared to - say - XL2 or HVX202 ....

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Old August 31st, 2008, 04:29 PM   #90
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I think something like the Zoom H2 (Samson - Zoom - H2) would work great with it. Could even mount it on the hot shoe.
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