120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > High Definition Video Acquisition > Nikon Photo for HD Video

Nikon Photo for HD Video
Dedicated for all Nikon D-SLR cameras plus compact mirrorless systems.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 18th, 2018, 02:30 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 690
120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

Hi everyone.

I started testing the D850 with one of its 120fps options. Apparently when an external recorder like an Atomos is connected, you only get 60fps. Without and recording to XQD, true 120FPS. Have a look at this:

FCP.co Forum :: Topic: 120fps slo mo???? (1/1)

I was hoping to get full sensor with 120fps. One thing I did not try was removing all the cards from the camera first and then record to the Ninja Flame. Maybe someone else can test this theory.

Jonathan
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2018, 08:05 AM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Byron Bay, Australia
Posts: 1,154
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

I've been looking to get confirmation on this for ages as I've got a shoot coming up where sponsor obligations are forcing me to shoot on a D850 - and I really don't want to be stuck with 8bit h.264 for slow motion.

The only thing I'd read so far is that HDMI triggering is disabled in 120p mode - and based on that, it sounded as though the camera could output the 120p, but that you have to engage recording from the Atomos, rather than from the camera. However my interpretation of this could have been wrong.

Have you tried to start/stop recording directly on the Flame, rather than the camera, and checked how that compares?
__________________
Camera Operator/Editor in Northern NSW, Australia
Sony FS700R || Adobe CC Suite
John Wiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2018, 11:40 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 690
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

Hi John.

I can confirm with my discussion with Nikon (Level 2) that the D850 records to the xqd card @ 120fps, with playback @30p But yes h.264, not sure of bit depth, but guessing 8.

I spoke with Atomos support and they said that due to transfer rate limitations of HDMI, that the Atomos Ninja Flame can only receive up to a 60p signal via HDMI. Actually, HDMI was never really intended for this kind of workload. It just happens to work with normal recording situations, 24, 30.

What puzzles me is when I connect the Flame to the D850 and I have the D850 set to shoot slo mo 120fps 30p, why the signal to the Flame is 60p (59.94ish).

This leads me to think that there is some processing going on in camera beyond the HDMI link, if that makes any sense. I'd love to see what you came up with if you test this out. My (our) goal is to get that 120fps signal to the Atomos recorder, and get that ProRes xxx file.

I just don't know if it is physically possible. And yes, I ONLY tested using the Record start/stop on the Atomos. What I did not test was pressing record on camera and then record on Atomos. With or without the HDMI trigger.

That could be an interesting test, but I am getting ready for a big project next week so I won't be able to test this.

Let me know what you come up with if you dod any testing.

Cheers.

Jonathan
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2018, 06:18 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Byron Bay, Australia
Posts: 1,154
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

That's a very strange thing for Atomos to say; I mean, why would they include 1080p120 on their HDMI recorders and then claim that HDMI is incapable of doing this?

Newer version's of HDMI should be able to support 120p, but I have no idea what sort of hardware is in the D850.
__________________
Camera Operator/Editor in Northern NSW, Australia
Sony FS700R || Adobe CC Suite
John Wiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2018, 08:05 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 690
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

Hi John.

Could you point me in the direction that theAtomos hdmi recorders can do120fps. Now you got me really curious. I know my tests have been less than scientific. I wonder if we are the only 2 trying to figure this out
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2018, 11:29 PM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Byron Bay, Australia
Posts: 1,154
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

It's listed on the Atomos website in the product specifications (under "Supported Codecs & playback":

https://www.atomos.com/ninja-flame

I wonder which cameras actually are capable of outputting 120p over HDMI? If there aren't any, then this feature seems to be completely superfluous.
__________________
Camera Operator/Editor in Northern NSW, Australia
Sony FS700R || Adobe CC Suite
John Wiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2018, 12:41 PM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,875
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

Because they copied the supported codec resolutions and frame rates from the SDI-based units. It doesn’t claim you can get 120p over HDMI.
Gary Huff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2018, 10:32 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 690
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

“suported hdmi looped out” Not sure what that means.

Another thing I thought of: With my D800, part of the set up procedure was to make sure that no CF cards were in the camera when recordin to an Atomos Ninja BLADE. I’m not sure why, since rhere were a few occasions that I forgot to remove them with no noticeable affect.

So I’m wondering what would result removing cards from the D850 prior to trying to recording higher frame rates. Some sort of internal switching going on? Again, I’d test this out if I wasn’t on assignment next week. May or may not make a bit of difference.

Thanks for your replies.
Jonathan Levin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2018, 01:06 AM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Byron Bay, Australia
Posts: 1,154
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

So I've just received our first unit from Nikon for testing and can confirm that the HDMI out does not do the full 100/120fps in slo-mo mode.

At first this really annoyed me, until I realised it might actually overcome one of my workflow problems - wanting slow-mo but still needing audio. With the Shogun Inferno (or Shogun Flame or Ninja Inferno, plus I think the upcoming Ninja V too) you have the XLR adapter which means you're plugging the mics directly into the recorder. So while the Camera is recording a 100/120fps file with no sound, the Shogun can record a 50/60p file with sound. Very handy for those times when you're shooting B-roll and then suddenly you know you need a sound bite, so instead of having to go to the menus to change frame rate and probably miss the moment, all I have to do is start rolling on the Atomos.
__________________
Camera Operator/Editor in Northern NSW, Australia
Sony FS700R || Adobe CC Suite
John Wiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2018, 11:40 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,053
Re: 120fps with D850, only 60p Atomos Ninja Flame

What you're forgetting here is that 120p isn't just for slow-mo...

"Professional Gamers" want a recorder that can record 120fps for gameplay footage. (Yes, they're that egotistical.)

Atomos fulfilled that need first. Camera manufacturers don't see the need for 120fps unless it's related to 3D, which has already bust.
Jack Zhang is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Adorama
(800) 223-2500
New York, NY

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Texas Media Systems
(512) 440-1400
Austin, TX

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

VideoGuys
(800) 323-2325
Mineola, NY

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > High Definition Video Acquisition > Nikon Photo for HD Video

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:25 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2018 The Digital Video Information Network