ProRes question

Aric Mannion · April 8th, 2009, 03:04 PM

As I understand it capturing as Pro Res has the same results as exporting pro res from captured HDV. Do you get time code logged when you capture pro res? If not, considering the drive space it takes up, capturing HDV ain't a bad choice.

Simon Denny · April 8th, 2009, 04:12 PM

I’m always interested in other peoples work flow and David why do you take the edit to a ProRes QuickTime? What edge does this have over going straight to compressor from the edit? I have tried this and many other routes and cant see the difference.

Thanks

Brandon Freeman · April 9th, 2009, 02:01 PM

I don't know about David, but I like to have a ProRes HQ master of my final piece on hand for archival purposes.

Xavier Plagaro · April 10th, 2009, 02:12 AM

ProRes footage accept color correction much better than HDV.

ProRes needs more space and less CPU to edit. HDV needs less space but more CPU power to edit.

If you have space, capturing HDV directly to ProRes may be the best solution.

Brandon Freeman · April 12th, 2009, 08:13 AM

That's what I figured, Xavier. Since hard drive space is not a luxury for me, I am capturing HDV as HDV, locking the visual edit down (minus any color correction/etc), then transcoding the clips I need to ProRes HQ. It seems that this is the same as capturing all clips directly to ProRes, because FCP is just transcoding live when capturing.

Jonathan Levin · April 13th, 2009, 10:49 AM

Hello.

I've been curious. When editors say FC ProRes requires much more disk space, just how much more?

Using this as an example, could you give us some idea. The 48 minute FC HDV project (easy set-up AIC 1080/60) with captured files takes up 44GB.

So how large approximately if captured firewire to ProRes in FC?

Thanks.

Jonathan

Mike Barber · April 13th, 2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Levin

When editors say FC ProRes requires much more disk space, just how much more?

See: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/1022167-post5.html

Jonathan Levin · April 13th, 2009, 11:13 AM

Thanks for that Mike.

Downloaded the WP and will read that. I think that just looking at the graph, and I do need to read this, that 1920x1080 29.97 needs either 1.65 or 1.10 GB storage depending on the data rate which I hope the PR-white paper will explain.

So my 48 minute project would go from being 43gb to around 65GB. Sound right?

Jonathan

Mike Barber · April 14th, 2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Levin

So my 48 minute project would go from being 43gb to around 65GB. Sound right?

That doesn't sound right to me at all. To start, 48 minutes of HDV should be closer to 13 GB, not 43 GB! 48 minutes of Pro Res 422 (HQ) footage that is 1920x1080 @ 29.97 fps should be in the neighbourhood of 75-80 GB (Pro Res has a variable bitrate so YMMV).

Shaun Roemich · April 14th, 2009, 06:50 PM

Mike, I think he may be adding up ALL media including render files and media unused in the timeline, which of course means even your estimate is low...

Jonathan Levin · April 15th, 2009, 08:55 AM

Hey Mike and Shaun,

Actually, I made a slight error.

The 43GB was the size of the Capture scratch folder that had all my clips from this project that were imported from camera using AIC 1080/60.

My project (final timeline in FC) is 48 minutes, BUT the 43GB of Capture scratch contains an hour and five minutes, the total amount of tape that I shot. This does not include render, AS or any other media. Just the Capture folder of this project.

I hope that clears that up a little.

Jonathan

Jonathan Levin · April 15th, 2009, 09:02 AM

Ok. One other question about Pro Res:

If you import HDV using Pro Res, do you also out put using Pro Res? Or after editing a project in Pro Res, do you go through the usual steps of File>Export Quicktime from FC. (I call this the master), and then from that choose H.264 or whatever for a burn to DVD?

I see the advantage (and disadvantage) of converting to PR on import: easier to work with but takes up a gi-normous amount of disk space.

If you only convert just one time to PR, either on import or on export, does one give a better result over the other?

Jonathan

Aric Mannion · April 15th, 2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Levin

Ok. One other question about Pro Res:

If you import HDV using Pro Res, do you also out put using Pro Res? Or after editing a project in Pro Res, do you go through the usual steps of File>Export Quicktime from FC. (I call this the master), and then from that choose H.264 or whatever for a burn to DVD?

I see the advantage (and disadvantage) of converting to PR on import: easier to work with but takes up a gi-normous amount of disk space.

If you only convert just one time to PR, either on import or on export, does one give a better result over the other?

Jonathan

If your sequence setting is already pro res, then you can follow the usual steps ("current settings") to exporting your Quicktime "master".
So you would only convert to Pro Res once either on capture or in your sequence settings. It's the same difference.

Pete Cofrancesco · April 15th, 2009, 08:48 PM

People have different reasons for using ProRes. Mine: I don't have the luxury of working on a state of the art system, my G5 struggles to edit HDV, but has no problems with ProRes. I'm not sure why the extra space it takes would concern you, considering how cheap 1 tera byte drives have gotten, or even 1.5TB.

Jonathan Levin · April 16th, 2009, 09:45 AM

Aric.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think that for me, the main reason I'll start a Pro Rs workflow is getting the maximum quality video out of my little HV30 camcorder. So what ever help that needs....

Pete,

Storage not a problem (yet). I'm wondering. When you say your G5 struggles along with HDV, what exactly is it struggling with? I've been editing HDV (AIC 1080/60) and aside from having to render tiitles, some transitions, I have not really had to much trouble.

The reason I ask is I too am working on a old-ish G5 SP 1.8 set-up.

Aside from the fact that it takes about 20 hours to conform on export.

Jonathan

April 9th, 2009, 02:01 PM	#18
Brandon Freeman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 226	I don't know about David, but I like to have a ProRes HQ master of my final piece on hand for archival purposes. __________________ Canon EOS 7D, Final Cut Studio 2

April 12th, 2009, 08:13 AM	#20
Brandon Freeman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 226	That's what I figured, Xavier. Since hard drive space is not a luxury for me, I am capturing HDV as HDV, locking the visual edit down (minus any color correction/etc), then transcoding the clips I need to ProRes HQ. It seems that this is the same as capturing all clips directly to ProRes, because FCP is just transcoding live when capturing. __________________ Canon EOS 7D, Final Cut Studio 2

April 14th, 2009, 06:50 PM	#25
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Mike, I think he may be adding up ALL media including render files and media unused in the timeline, which of course means even your estimate is low... __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

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April 8th, 2009, 03:04 PM	#16
Aric Mannion Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 616	As I understand it capturing as Pro Res has the same results as exporting pro res from captured HDV. Do you get time code logged when you capture pro res? If not, considering the drive space it takes up, capturing HDV ain't a bad choice.

April 8th, 2009, 04:12 PM	#17
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	I’m always interested in other peoples work flow and David why do you take the edit to a ProRes QuickTime? What edge does this have over going straight to compressor from the edit? I have tried this and many other routes and cant see the difference. Thanks

April 10th, 2009, 02:12 AM	#19
Xavier Plagaro Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 90	ProRes footage accept color correction much better than HDV. ProRes needs more space and less CPU to edit. HDV needs less space but more CPU power to edit. If you have space, capturing HDV directly to ProRes may be the best solution.

April 13th, 2009, 10:49 AM	#21
Jonathan Levin Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 692	Hello. I've been curious. When editors say FC ProRes requires much more disk space, just how much more? Using this as an example, could you give us some idea. The 48 minute FC HDV project (easy set-up AIC 1080/60) with captured files takes up 44GB. So how large approximately if captured firewire to ProRes in FC? Thanks. Jonathan

April 13th, 2009, 11:13 AM	#23
Jonathan Levin Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 692	Thanks for that Mike. Downloaded the WP and will read that. I think that just looking at the graph, and I do need to read this, that 1920x1080 29.97 needs either 1.65 or 1.10 GB storage depending on the data rate which I hope the PR-white paper will explain. So my 48 minute project would go from being 43gb to around 65GB. Sound right? Jonathan

April 15th, 2009, 08:55 AM	#26
Jonathan Levin Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 692	Hey Mike and Shaun, Actually, I made a slight error. The 43GB was the size of the Capture scratch folder that had all my clips from this project that were imported from camera using AIC 1080/60. My project (final timeline in FC) is 48 minutes, BUT the 43GB of Capture scratch contains an hour and five minutes, the total amount of tape that I shot. This does not include render, AS or any other media. Just the Capture folder of this project. I hope that clears that up a little. Jonathan

April 15th, 2009, 09:02 AM	#27
Jonathan Levin Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 692	Ok. One other question about Pro Res: If you import HDV using Pro Res, do you also out put using Pro Res? Or after editing a project in Pro Res, do you go through the usual steps of File>Export Quicktime from FC. (I call this the master), and then from that choose H.264 or whatever for a burn to DVD? I see the advantage (and disadvantage) of converting to PR on import: easier to work with but takes up a gi-normous amount of disk space. If you only convert just one time to PR, either on import or on export, does one give a better result over the other? Jonathan

April 15th, 2009, 08:48 PM	#29
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	People have different reasons for using ProRes. Mine: I don't have the luxury of working on a state of the art system, my G5 struggles to edit HDV, but has no problems with ProRes. I'm not sure why the extra space it takes would concern you, considering how cheap 1 tera byte drives have gotten, or even 1.5TB.

April 16th, 2009, 09:45 AM	#30
Jonathan Levin Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 692	Aric. Thanks for clearing that up. I think that for me, the main reason I'll start a Pro Rs workflow is getting the maximum quality video out of my little HV30 camcorder. So what ever help that needs.... Pete, Storage not a problem (yet). I'm wondering. When you say your G5 struggles along with HDV, what exactly is it struggling with? I've been editing HDV (AIC 1080/60) and aside from having to render tiitles, some transitions, I have not really had to much trouble. The reason I ask is I too am working on a old-ish G5 SP 1.8 set-up. Aside from the fact that it takes about 20 hours to conform on export. Jonathan