Build or buy editing computer setup? at DVinfo.net

Jesse James · September 26th, 2003, 12:56 AM

I'm finally in a position to buy an dedicated NLE video editing computer. This editing system will be used to edit our video for VHS, DVD, Intenet and hopefully broadcast medias. Budget is 5K.

The next decision is whether to purchase a turn key system or build one. I've built several computers so I'm familair with how to install hardware and software.

I would like to use a dual Intel processor to have the brute horsepower if needed. I know Macs are sweet to use but do I need to go that route or stay in the Micro$oft world?

Is it better in the long run to buy an turn key system for video editing or to build the system yourself? Any venders or brands to look at?

Other components I would need are an audio mixer, voiceover mic and a dual monitor setup. Any other equipment that is needed?

Basically looking for a poh boy pro editing setup. Camera will be a GL2. I see where several members have recommended picking the editing software 1st and then getting the computer to match the software. I haven't a clue to which one to pick. I see Vegas and Premiere mentioned a lot here and they seem to be the most popular.

Thank you for your help.

Rob Belics · September 26th, 2003, 08:05 AM

Buying a turnkey system from, say, Compaq, Gateway or Dell is never the high performance solution. They match the performance to the price they want to offer by redesigning the components, whereas if you build your own you can match the performance to what you need.

When it comes time to get the latest widget, it's sometimes easier to swap out the component without concern whether it will work. Compaq in particular is horrendous for this.

The only disadvantage is that by the time I want the latest widget I need to upgrade everything else anyway.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · September 26th, 2003, 10:18 AM

You can do a lot with 5k. If your budget is really that high, you can afford to save yourself the various hassles of system configuration and buy a turnkey system. Find a good reputable system integrator, present your budget, and get yourself a good fast system with lots of RAM.

Ed Frazier · September 26th, 2003, 04:15 PM

Jesse, I'm in the process of upgrading to a new NLE myself and first went to some NLE system integrators to see what they were offering that would be compatible with the Real Time card I plan to use. I've been using a Matrox RT2500 for a couple of years and have been satisfied with it, but may switch to Canopus this time. Still undecided there, but will likely go with Matrox or Canopus. I also want to play around with Vegas and see what that's all about, but Premiere Pro looks sweet!

Next I checked the NLE vendor websites to see what components had been certified for use with their boards. I then went to newegg.com and priced out the identical components used by the system integrators to determine what premium would be paid for a turnkey system. Turns out that they are getting anywhere from $300 - $1000 over a DIY system for identical parts. ($300 isn't too bad, but $1000 will buy a lot of extras)

I'm planning to go with a P4 3.0Ghz system, not a dual CPU board, so you might want to go through the same exercise and see what you come up with.

Good Luck and let us know how it all works out.

Robert Poulton · September 26th, 2003, 05:42 PM

check out HDBoxx.

www.boxxtech.com

Rob

Mike Rehmus · September 26th, 2003, 09:31 PM

I just did a major upgrade of my main editing computer.

From a dual PIII 850's with one gig to:

Asus P4C800-E deluxe $185
holds 4 gigs of ram
4 IDE drive channels
2 SATA regular + 2 SATA RAID ports
1 IDE RAID port for 2 drives
Intel gigabit LAN
8 USB
2 firewire
Game/MIDI port
ESBU digital sound
6.1 sound card
slot for wireless LAN card
Intel P4 2.4C Ht $169
Matched OCZ 512 meg sticks of ddr3200 ram $289
Radeon 9600 Pro $168
550 watt power supply $98

To a 60 gig C drive, and a 120 and 200 gig WD 7200 rpm, 8 meg buffer drives I added a 160 gig Seagate SATA drive $209

I already had the Server cabinet so I didn't have to pay for that but a Server cab can be had for under $200.

I already have a Canopus DVRexRT with Edius so I didn't have to do anything but slide the new motherboard under them.

Fast enough for most of the realtime I need. Only requires rendering with 3D transitions which I don't use. Video and Audio filters are all real time.

A dual Intel solution would be a lot more expensive.

I'd wait a bit if you can and see how the 64 bit AMD chipset plays out. It is said to be faster with 32 bit code than the Intels and, of course, very fast with 64 bit code.

Glenn Chan · September 26th, 2003, 11:05 PM

Go with the NLE/hardware combo you like best. For encoding stuff I prefer the PC platform because all the good encoders are there. Go with either a Pentium or dual Xeons (expensive). Benchmarks comparing the 2 are at anadtech.com and tomshardware.com. For great value go with an overclocked Pentium system. You can end up with a system that has a definite advantage over the most expensive stock system while paying a bit less.

But Macs are sweet....

Bogdan Vaglarov · September 27th, 2003, 12:09 AM

I wondered but haven't asked by now - can you mix IDE and SATA drives? Also how do you partition the drives? I guess the video drive is best to be left all one partition.

Glenn Chan · September 27th, 2003, 12:17 AM

You can mix those kinds of drives. IDE is cheaper right now I believe.

You can partition the drives with the included software or with a program like partition magic. One partition is fine and probably the best setup.

Jesse James · September 27th, 2003, 01:53 AM

Thanks for all the input. It looks like a single P4 will do for now from reading Anand's and Tom's.

Mike, what are the 2 extra drives used for on your new editing system? Backup?

Mike Rehmus · September 27th, 2003, 10:11 AM

A second drive is almost mandatory for video editing.

I normally have 4-5 projects underway that are up to 3 hours in length. Frequently, even for short projects, I may have 4 or 5 hours of video so it all takes a lot of storage.

I'll probably add another SATA drive in the next month or so.

I just took 6 SCSI drives off of the system and replaced all of them with more capacity in just the one 160 Gig SATA.

5 X 18 gig Barracudas
1 X 75 gig Cheetah

The SATA is a little bit more expensive than ATA drives but it is faster by enough that it makes a difference in how many RT video streams I can handle.

Yi Fong Yu · September 29th, 2003, 11:58 AM

just want to add in the storage note. if you get TWO promise s150 sx4 RAID controllers and buy 6 Maxtor 200GB hard drives and put them all in RAID 0 config (4 on1 and 2 on the other) you can have over 1 terabyte of hard drive =D. imagine having 10+ hrs of DV footage for your chopping enjoyment =D.

Mike Rehmus · September 29th, 2003, 12:05 PM

You don't need to buy the Promise controllers to get RAID.

NT, 2000 & XP will support software RAID very nicely.

Glenn Chan · September 29th, 2003, 05:00 PM

Hey, you have to check this site out: http://www.go-l.com/. Their editing systems are beasts!!! Their setups are definitely possible although some people claim their site is a hoax. But really, it's worth visiting because it looks like a clone of the Apple site and their setups are nice.

Yi Fong Yu · September 29th, 2003, 10:39 PM

although the promise will fair not much better (since it doesn't have an onboard processor) that doesn't mean it won't do a much better job than win. software RAID should be avoided at all costs!!! data is too precious to play games with. what promise's card will have is hardware "accelerated" assistance and that, my friend, is MUCH better than having NOTHING at all. i strongly urge against software RAIDs. besides the price/performance is not too shabby @all. sheck this out:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/perf/...oftware-c.html

Quote:

-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : You don't need to buy the Promise controllers to get RAID.

NT, 2000 & XP will support software RAID very nicely.

September 26th, 2003, 12:56 AM	#1
Jesse James Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 65	Build or buy editing computer setup? I'm finally in a position to buy an dedicated NLE video editing computer. This editing system will be used to edit our video for VHS, DVD, Intenet and hopefully broadcast medias. Budget is 5K. The next decision is whether to purchase a turn key system or build one. I've built several computers so I'm familair with how to install hardware and software. I would like to use a dual Intel processor to have the brute horsepower if needed. I know Macs are sweet to use but do I need to go that route or stay in the Micro$oft world? Is it better in the long run to buy an turn key system for video editing or to build the system yourself? Any venders or brands to look at? Other components I would need are an audio mixer, voiceover mic and a dual monitor setup. Any other equipment that is needed? Basically looking for a poh boy pro editing setup. Camera will be a GL2. I see where several members have recommended picking the editing software 1st and then getting the computer to match the software. I haven't a clue to which one to pick. I see Vegas and Premiere mentioned a lot here and they seem to be the most popular. Thank you for your help. __________________ Jesse James Owner/Producer Jesse's Hunting & Outdoors

September 26th, 2003, 10:18 AM	#3
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	You can do a lot with 5k. If your budget is really that high, you can afford to save yourself the various hassles of system configuration and buy a turnkey system. Find a good reputable system integrator, present your budget, and get yourself a good fast system with lots of RAM. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 26th, 2003, 04:15 PM	#4
Ed Frazier Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Las Cruces, NM Posts: 343	Jesse, I'm in the process of upgrading to a new NLE myself and first went to some NLE system integrators to see what they were offering that would be compatible with the Real Time card I plan to use. I've been using a Matrox RT2500 for a couple of years and have been satisfied with it, but may switch to Canopus this time. Still undecided there, but will likely go with Matrox or Canopus. I also want to play around with Vegas and see what that's all about, but Premiere Pro looks sweet! Next I checked the NLE vendor websites to see what components had been certified for use with their boards. I then went to newegg.com and priced out the identical components used by the system integrators to determine what premium would be paid for a turnkey system. Turns out that they are getting anywhere from $300 - $1000 over a DIY system for identical parts. ($300 isn't too bad, but $1000 will buy a lot of extras) I'm planning to go with a P4 3.0Ghz system, not a dual CPU board, so you might want to go through the same exercise and see what you come up with. Good Luck and let us know how it all works out. __________________ Ed Frazier

September 26th, 2003, 09:31 PM	#6
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I just did a major upgrade of my main editing computer. From a dual PIII 850's with one gig to: Asus P4C800-E deluxe $185 holds 4 gigs of ram 4 IDE drive channels 2 SATA regular + 2 SATA RAID ports 1 IDE RAID port for 2 drives Intel gigabit LAN 8 USB 2 firewire Game/MIDI port ESBU digital sound 6.1 sound card slot for wireless LAN card Intel P4 2.4C Ht $169 Matched OCZ 512 meg sticks of ddr3200 ram $289 Radeon 9600 Pro $168 550 watt power supply $98 To a 60 gig C drive, and a 120 and 200 gig WD 7200 rpm, 8 meg buffer drives I added a 160 gig Seagate SATA drive $209 I already had the Server cabinet so I didn't have to pay for that but a Server cab can be had for under $200. I already have a Canopus DVRexRT with Edius so I didn't have to do anything but slide the new motherboard under them. Fast enough for most of the realtime I need. Only requires rendering with 3D transitions which I don't use. Video and Audio filters are all real time. A dual Intel solution would be a lot more expensive. I'd wait a bit if you can and see how the 64 bit AMD chipset plays out. It is said to be faster with 32 bit code than the Intels and, of course, very fast with 64 bit code. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 27th, 2003, 01:53 AM	#10
Jesse James Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 65	Thanks for all the input. It looks like a single P4 will do for now from reading Anand's and Tom's. Mike, what are the 2 extra drives used for on your new editing system? Backup? __________________ Jesse James Owner/Producer Jesse's Hunting & Outdoors

September 26th, 2003, 08:05 AM	#2
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	Buying a turnkey system from, say, Compaq, Gateway or Dell is never the high performance solution. They match the performance to the price they want to offer by redesigning the components, whereas if you build your own you can match the performance to what you need. When it comes time to get the latest widget, it's sometimes easier to swap out the component without concern whether it will work. Compaq in particular is horrendous for this. The only disadvantage is that by the time I want the latest widget I need to upgrade everything else anyway.

September 26th, 2003, 05:42 PM	#5
Robert Poulton Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 245	check out HDBoxx. www.boxxtech.com Rob

September 26th, 2003, 11:05 PM	#7
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Go with the NLE/hardware combo you like best. For encoding stuff I prefer the PC platform because all the good encoders are there. Go with either a Pentium or dual Xeons (expensive). Benchmarks comparing the 2 are at anadtech.com and tomshardware.com. For great value go with an overclocked Pentium system. You can end up with a system that has a definite advantage over the most expensive stock system while paying a bit less. But Macs are sweet....

September 27th, 2003, 12:09 AM	#8
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	I wondered but haven't asked by now - can you mix IDE and SATA drives? Also how do you partition the drives? I guess the video drive is best to be left all one partition.

September 27th, 2003, 12:17 AM	#9
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	You can mix those kinds of drives. IDE is cheaper right now I believe. You can partition the drives with the included software or with a program like partition magic. One partition is fine and probably the best setup.

September 27th, 2003, 10:11 AM	#11
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	A second drive is almost mandatory for video editing. I normally have 4-5 projects underway that are up to 3 hours in length. Frequently, even for short projects, I may have 4 or 5 hours of video so it all takes a lot of storage. I'll probably add another SATA drive in the next month or so. I just took 6 SCSI drives off of the system and replaced all of them with more capacity in just the one 160 Gig SATA. 5 X 18 gig Barracudas 1 X 75 gig Cheetah The SATA is a little bit more expensive than ATA drives but it is faster by enough that it makes a difference in how many RT video streams I can handle. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 29th, 2003, 11:58 AM	#12
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	just want to add in the storage note. if you get TWO promise s150 sx4 RAID controllers and buy 6 Maxtor 200GB hard drives and put them all in RAID 0 config (4 on1 and 2 on the other) you can have over 1 terabyte of hard drive =D. imagine having 10+ hrs of DV footage for your chopping enjoyment =D. __________________ bow wow wow

September 29th, 2003, 12:05 PM	#13
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	You don't need to buy the Promise controllers to get RAID. NT, 2000 & XP will support software RAID very nicely. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 29th, 2003, 05:00 PM	#14
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Hey, you have to check this site out: http://www.go-l.com/. Their editing systems are beasts!!! Their setups are definitely possible although some people claim their site is a hoax. But really, it's worth visiting because it looks like a clone of the Apple site and their setups are nice.