PremierePro Main Concept codec vs Canopus and AVI1 vs AVI2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > Non-Linear Editing on the PC

Non-Linear Editing on the PC
Discussing the editing of all formats with Matrox, Pinnacle and more.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 22nd, 2003, 02:55 PM   #1
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,093
PremierePro Main Concept codec vs Canopus and AVI1 vs AVI2

After a year of lurking this outstanding site, hereís my first post. Thanks in advance to any technically knowledgeable folks who can answer these two questions that extensive searches havenít quite clarified.

BACKGROUND: Iím a novice with a WinXP 3GHz P4 with 1GB DDR and tons of hard disk space. So hardware real-time isnít important to me; I just want high quality exports for my time and effortÖAfter all, DV has enough artifacts as it is so donít want to add more with poor rendering! Thus far my projects have just had simple transitions and some color correction etc, but eventually Iíd like to try my hand at more advanced stuff like green screen.

Iíve previously used a DVRaptor + Premiere, but recently bought Adobe Video Collection, of course not knowing that Canopus would not be supporting the olí DVRaptor under PremierePro.

The good members here seem to agree that the Canopus codec is far superior to M$ís. But since PremierePro uses the Main Concept DV codec internally (although apparently giving files an MS-DV wrapper when it exports them), Iíd rather not spend a large additional amount to buy another Canopus card just to get the codec for rendering.

QUESTION 1: Would rendering within PremierePro (one or two generations, not 25 or 50 times as in some web tests!) -- which I presume is done on 5:1 compressed DV using the Main Concept codec at 4:1:1 -- be noticeably inferior to Storm2ís uncompressed 4:2:2 processing?

QUESTION 2: If I decide to NOT use Canopus any more, Iíll want to convert a large number of original clips intended to be permanent archives from the Canopus codec to MS, using Canopusí utility. Would you agree that it is best to convert them to MS AVI Type 2 files, rather than Type 1?

Looking forward to your reading your wisdom!
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2003, 10:33 AM   #2
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
Disclaimer: I know nothing about Premiere Pro

Are you sure it is using the MC codec? If so, just stick with that.
Let me explain to you what happens when a program "exports"
it as a different DV (!) codec. Almost nothing. It changes a codec
identifier in the header of the resulting AVI file. The video/audio
INSIDE the file IS NOT change in anyway.

Basically this identifier tells the playback system which codec
to use.

If it is using the Main Concept codec then it is also exporting
with this codec. What it does is NOT write the Main Concept
identifier BUT the MICROSOFT one (MSDV). Why? Because that
makes sure every system can play it back and read the resulting
file.

If the quality looks good enough for you, don't sweat and stick
with that. There are far more important things then which
codec you are using. Microsofts codec has increased leaps and
bounds in quality in later versions (like XP) but is still not as good
as the other codecs, though.

As to your other question: it is best to use AVI type 2 if all your
applications (that you use) understand it. Why? Because it
supports files larger then 4 GB (if you are running NTFS file
system) and some other benefits.
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2003, 02:29 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Middletown, Maryland USA
Posts: 177
Just an independant corroboration: Premiere Pro does in fact utilize the Main Concept codec. It seems to do quite a nice job, from my experience (which is somewhat limited)...
Chris Long is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2003, 05:47 AM   #4
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,093
Rob and Chris,

Thanks very much for the replies. I'll convert to Type 2 AVI files.

Agree that unrendered frames would be unaffected. But, I'm not sure I'm clear about how significant the 4:2:2 noncompressed processing of a Storm2 would be for rendered frames (eg green screen compositing) as compared to the compressed 4:1:1 rendering native to PP alone. (without having to spend the $1200+ to get a Storm2+Bay to do the comparison!)

Then again, perhaps the answer is: that's what After Effects is for?

I'm still on the very low end of the learning curve for AE, but many other posts indicate that its green screening and most other effects are superior to Premiere's.

I'm satisfied for now to experiment w/ AE and see how it goes. But, if anyone is willing to do a brain dump on the subject, I'm sure many of us in DV-Land would appreciate the added knowledge.

Whew, there sure is a lot to learn!

Thanks again for the words and Happy Turkey Day to all!
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2003, 03:59 PM   #5
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
I can't help you with those questions. What I do know is that
the green issue and 4:2:2 and 4:1:1 have been discussed
before. Try a search (see link in my signature)!
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > Non-Linear Editing on the PC

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:07 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network