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Non-Linear Editing on the PC
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Old May 7th, 2002, 11:05 AM   #1
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Capture Cards :(

I'm a little foggy on all the comparisons of capture cards. If you're using a "firewire" connection to transfer digital video to your hard drive, does it matter which card you use? Aren't you really only utilizing the cable connectors on the card...the actually digital information shouldn't be affected at all?

Thanks in advance.

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Old May 7th, 2002, 11:47 AM   #2
 
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as far as firewire cards go, the only significant diff's are
1-the quality of the components
2-Texas Instruments or Lucent chip

Some cards have internal ports as well as external ports, which makes it convenient if you have a front panel jack extension, like what's available from FrontX.

I think most people are buying the card available from ADS Technology. Whatever you get, just be sure it's OHCI compliant.
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Old May 8th, 2002, 03:20 AM   #3
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The difference also come into play when you are doing
non-linear editing. Some cards (like canopus) have chips on
them to speed-up your editing and rendering (effects, fades, etc.)
things. This can greatly cut-down your waiting time (also
depending on your cpu speed ofcourse). Most of these cards
also offer analog input/outputs if you need to do some "old"
style work....

The signal should not be different indeed... Because the
camera already encoded it. Capturing DV is "just" a file "copy"
in principle. It is the extra things that the cards has, along
with the support that make them the great things they are!
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Old May 8th, 2002, 08:45 AM   #4
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Do these "capture card chips" enable you to see unrendered effects on your monitor, or do they actually "speed up editing"? Once your video is captured onto hard drive, is the card still "in the loop"? I guess I thought it was more like an input/output device?
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Old May 8th, 2002, 09:10 AM   #5
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Everytime you view the footage the card is used (in case of the
more powerful ones). A simpe OHCI compliant card is not. Here
the Microsoft DV driver/codec decodes the DV stream.

These cards help you to get real-time rendering. If you do a
fade or effects you (sometimes) do not have to render it
seperately. The card does this in real-time for you. Allowing
a faster edit because you do not have to wait for these things.
On my 1 GHz laptop with standard OHCI compliant firewire
port I have not yet felt many slowdowns... It all boils down to
how much money you've got to spend, what cpu you've got
and if you need anlog in/out.
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Old May 8th, 2002, 09:18 AM   #6
 
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Rob....

Does the canopus card, with its proprietary codec, allow playback on systems that don't have a canopus card and codec?
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Old May 8th, 2002, 10:35 AM   #7
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I can answer that question, Bill. For other systems you have that do not contain a Canopus card, you'll need the Canopus DV Booster Pack, which includes the codec and software so that you can network with and share the editing process with your Canopus system. Your laptop becomes compatible with your DVStorm system for example. See www.justedit.com > Products > Software > DV Booster Pack. Hope this helps,
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Old May 8th, 2002, 10:39 AM   #8
 
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So, then, what do you do if you want to distribute to the ROW in AVI format? do you re-render in M$ DV? and, if so, does this happen RT?
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Old May 8th, 2002, 10:56 AM   #9
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You always have to re-encode if you want to distribute in
a totally different format or in a different codec. If the canopus
cards output a standard DV compliant AVI file you can play it
on any system. If not, and you want to use it without re-
encoding get yourself a FOURCC changer and change that
AVIs FOURCC code to DVSD (Microsoft DV). This is a very old
trick to have another program read files from another program
that are compatible file formats but their headers are different.

I don't know if conversion is realtime... That depends on your
CPU I think.

I can test that FOURCC change construction if anyone would
put up a small AVI file captured with the Canopus board. Perhaps
a couple of seconds long. If it works I can even turn it into
a little article. Some of these things are quite advanced and
unknown to a lot of people.
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Old May 8th, 2002, 11:00 AM   #10
 
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ahh, I see.
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Old May 9th, 2002, 04:09 AM   #11
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<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : The difference also come into play when you are doing
non-linear editing. Some cards (like canopus) have chips on
them to speed-up your editing and rendering (effects, fades, etc.)
things. This can greatly cut-down your waiting time (also
depending on your cpu speed ofcourse). Most of these cards
also offer analog input/outputs if you need to do some "old"
style work....

The signal should not be different indeed... Because the
camera already encoded it. Capturing DV is "just" a file "copy"
in principle. It is the extra things that the cards has, along
with the support that make them the great things they are! -->>>These Cards come normally bundled with Adobe Premiere and they cost not much more than the list price of Premiere.
There is however one disadvatage in respect to normal Firewire-Cards, they are not OHCI compatible. This is in any case true for the Pinnacle DV500Plus. Check it for the others!
What means OHCI compatibility? This is the possibility to connect other devices e.g. external Harddisks via firewire.
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Old May 10th, 2002, 10:09 AM   #12
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Thanks for the info.
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Old May 13th, 2002, 03:52 AM   #13
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Hannes,

OHCI (OpenHost Controller Interface) compatible means that
the card adheres to a certain SOFTWARE standard (usually
based on Texas Instruments chipsets). If you purchase such
a card it will automagically work with the newer Windows
operating systems (like ME, 2000 or XP). It also means that
Adobe Premiere and a host of other editing applications can
use it (directly). If your card is not OHCI compliant you need
special drivers for both the operating system **AND** your
editing application. This is the case for the canopus cards
(if I am not mistaken). Check their site for compatibility with
your NLE if you want to buy their products (Adobe Premiere
is always supported).

Hope this has explainged some.
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Old May 13th, 2002, 07:06 AM   #14
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Hi Rob,
you are totally right. I work with the Pinnacle DV 500, which is in no way OHCI compatible, with the consequences you indicated. After buying ScenalyzerLive, a little shareware program, I dumped the horrible Pinnacle capturing tool. ScenalyzerLive works with the DV500 Card (!) can separate scenes by DateCode or by analyzing the differences of consecutive frames. It even can index a dv-cassette by simulating the play and the fast foreward key over the firewire. I am insofar quite content with the Pinnacle/Scenalyzer/Premiere combination.
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Old May 13th, 2002, 08:10 AM   #15
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Hannes,

I've had the same problems with DV Tools ever since version 2 drivers. I too use SceneAlyzer and find it a great tool. One ray of light on the horizon is that Pinnacle have recently bought Fast and will soon be offering their Edition software for use with the DV500.
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