Do the Big NLE's do this? at DVinfo.net

David Ennis · August 26th, 2004, 06:12 PM

I'd like to load the footage from a two camera shoot onto two timelines and be able to copy and paste from them to assemble the finished product on a third timeline.

To support the process, I'd like to be able to view each simultaneously in its own window, or at least be able to switch back and forth easily without losing my place.

I'm sure this is a common objective--is it a standard capability in the higher end programs? I'd like very much to hear how Vegas, Premier and Liquid Edition are in this regard.

My only point of reference is Studio 8, which has only one timeline. Reviews and promotional materials I've seen don't answer this question for me.

TIA

Michael Wisniewski · August 26th, 2004, 06:42 PM

My low budget way to do this is to open multiple copies of Vegas.

Excalibur is designed to make working with multiple cameras easier.

George Ellis · August 26th, 2004, 08:24 PM

Dual view, one for each timeline has been a feature request for Liquid. Studio cannot really do this well, but a workaround has been to create picture in picture versions of the timelines and cut that way. When done, remove the effect. Liquid supports a large number of timelines. I just used 6 to assemble a video from three different events intermixed. I cut each line then assembled them. I started by roughly synching them (three different drum corps performances of the same show) and then just putting together as they seemed to fit.

Mike Rehmus · August 26th, 2004, 10:49 PM

Canopus' Edius can have as many time lines as you wish.

Those of us who use it and do multiple camera shoots do this:

Timeline 1 is the final video.
2-5 are for cameras 1-4. 2-5 are set to be a pip on 1 with each timeline using 1/4 of the screen and placed one into each corner.

Now you can scrub the timelines looking for a point at which you want to switch. (This all is shown on an external NTSC monitor) A Shift-D cuts all the timelines. Then on to the next point where you want to switch. As you cut a clip free, you move it to the timeline 1. This all happens in real time with no rendering including the PIPs.

After all is assembled to timeline 1, you kill the PIP and you have full-screen video with all the cuts in place.

Best if, when you turn on the camera, you don't ever turn them off except for tape/battery changes. Then you only have to sync up the timelines a few times.

Rob Lohman · August 27th, 2004, 03:35 AM

If I understands Mike technique correctly you should be able to
do this with any NLE that has multiple timelines or tracks. Per
default (unless you selected a clip) the S key on Vegas splits all
tracks as well for example.

Mike Rehmus · August 27th, 2004, 10:28 AM

Exactly correct but very difficult to do if it isn't a real time system I would think.

Calculating several hours of PIP for 4 tracks would seem to be a real task.

George Ellis · August 27th, 2004, 11:01 AM

Last time I did this with 3 cameras using PiP effect took about 20 minutes to render (I did 2 lines over the 3rd for a 12 minute set of clips.) But then again, I have a dual 3.06 Xeon ;) .

In Liquid, I will use a new sequence as a workspace to complete something like that (when you are cutting lots of stuff, just safer for the rest of the work you have already done). I will then put it into a container and save it to the library for access in other sequences/projects. The workflow for other NLEs may let you access the finished timeline directly from other sequences. Never did anything that advanced in Premiere when I was test driving it.

Edward Troxel · August 27th, 2004, 11:06 AM

Vegas handles multi-cam editing VERY well. Click on the link below my name and look at the following newsletters:

Vol 1, #9
Vol 2, #7

Graham Bernard · August 27th, 2004, 12:49 PM

One word - EXCALIBUR . . .

G

Gary Bettan · August 29th, 2004, 05:48 AM

You actually have 3 very solid options here.

1) Vegas 5 & Excalibur plug-in. Very nive solution and very cost effective. You can get Vegas 5 for under $500, and I believe the Excalibur plug-in is around $100

2) Avid Xpress Pro has multicam support built into it.

3) United Media has finally released their new Multicam plug-in for Premiere Pro

For more info on all of the above http://www.videoguys.com

Gary

Peter Jefferson · August 29th, 2004, 06:44 AM

just note that u dont need excalibur to get good multicam cuts with vegas.. although its a good program which offers a series of scripts, u can easily sync your video on the timelines within vegas by lining up the audio.

When cutting, In each track, u just run a PiP so u can see both footage and as u watch just hit the S key whenever u want to split or cut to the other cam..

then u can either move the clips down into ur main timeline, render to a new track or just leave it with both tracks active & unmuted

Richard Alvarez · August 29th, 2004, 09:04 AM

Peter,

Thats the workaround for all the nle's. I think he is looking for an "Open timeline, switch between" solution.

Peter Jefferson · August 31st, 2004, 11:17 AM

oh ok.. easy done..

set up Vegas with Midi.. now run an opacity controller change into vegas from ur midi controller, u could assign use a slider, or knob, but if u want to switch to the appropriate midi channel and command CC, then just set up a key or button to send out set values (0 and 100) to the Opacity of that track

:)

Chris Thomas · August 31st, 2004, 09:29 PM

I use premiere, with the style Mike mentioned, split screen the 2 cameras, each on a different video track. Premiere 6.5 or later allows a realtime preview, that is perfect for rough cuts, no rendering required. I line up the 2 video tracks to a camera flash, or you can use a clap stick, eye blink, anything both can see. In premiere, it is as simple as watching the video in realtime, using the keyboard shortcuts for marking in and out points ('l' = camera 1 ';' = camera 2), then lifting the video from the upper track. once the whole thing is done, I go back and fine tune the in and outs, remove the motion filter to make the video full screen again, and apply the fades if required. No plugins required, very speedy. I can usually get through a 30 minute shoot in under an hour to the final cut.

August 26th, 2004, 06:12 PM	#1
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Do the Big NLE's do this? I'd like to load the footage from a two camera shoot onto two timelines and be able to copy and paste from them to assemble the finished product on a third timeline. To support the process, I'd like to be able to view each simultaneously in its own window, or at least be able to switch back and forth easily without losing my place. I'm sure this is a common objective--is it a standard capability in the higher end programs? I'd like very much to hear how Vegas, Premier and Liquid Edition are in this regard. My only point of reference is Studio 8, which has only one timeline. Reviews and promotional materials I've seen don't answer this question for me. TIA __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

August 26th, 2004, 10:49 PM	#4
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Canopus' Edius can have as many time lines as you wish. Those of us who use it and do multiple camera shoots do this: Timeline 1 is the final video. 2-5 are for cameras 1-4. 2-5 are set to be a pip on 1 with each timeline using 1/4 of the screen and placed one into each corner. Now you can scrub the timelines looking for a point at which you want to switch. (This all is shown on an external NTSC monitor) A Shift-D cuts all the timelines. Then on to the next point where you want to switch. As you cut a clip free, you move it to the timeline 1. This all happens in real time with no rendering including the PIPs. After all is assembled to timeline 1, you kill the PIP and you have full-screen video with all the cuts in place. Best if, when you turn on the camera, you don't ever turn them off except for tape/battery changes. Then you only have to sync up the timelines a few times. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 27th, 2004, 03:35 AM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	If I understands Mike technique correctly you should be able to do this with any NLE that has multiple timelines or tracks. Per default (unless you selected a clip) the S key on Vegas splits all tracks as well for example. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 27th, 2004, 10:28 AM	#6
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Exactly correct but very difficult to do if it isn't a real time system I would think. Calculating several hours of PIP for 4 tracks would seem to be a real task. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

August 27th, 2004, 11:06 AM	#8
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Vegas handles multi-cam editing VERY well. Click on the link below my name and look at the following newsletters: Vol 1, #9 Vol 2, #7 __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

August 26th, 2004, 06:42 PM	#2
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	My low budget way to do this is to open multiple copies of Vegas. Excalibur is designed to make working with multiple cameras easier.

August 26th, 2004, 08:24 PM	#3
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Dual view, one for each timeline has been a feature request for Liquid. Studio cannot really do this well, but a workaround has been to create picture in picture versions of the timelines and cut that way. When done, remove the effect. Liquid supports a large number of timelines. I just used 6 to assemble a video from three different events intermixed. I cut each line then assembled them. I started by roughly synching them (three different drum corps performances of the same show) and then just putting together as they seemed to fit.

August 27th, 2004, 11:01 AM	#7
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Last time I did this with 3 cameras using PiP effect took about 20 minutes to render (I did 2 lines over the 3rd for a 12 minute set of clips.) But then again, I have a dual 3.06 Xeon ;) . In Liquid, I will use a new sequence as a workspace to complete something like that (when you are cutting lots of stuff, just safer for the rest of the work you have already done). I will then put it into a container and save it to the library for access in other sequences/projects. The workflow for other NLEs may let you access the finished timeline directly from other sequences. Never did anything that advanced in Premiere when I was test driving it.

August 27th, 2004, 12:49 PM	#9
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	One word - EXCALIBUR . . . G

August 29th, 2004, 05:48 AM	#10
Gary Bettan Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Glen Cove, NY Posts: 757	You actually have 3 very solid options here. 1) Vegas 5 & Excalibur plug-in. Very nive solution and very cost effective. You can get Vegas 5 for under $500, and I believe the Excalibur plug-in is around $100 2) Avid Xpress Pro has multicam support built into it. 3) United Media has finally released their new Multicam plug-in for Premiere Pro For more info on all of the above http://www.videoguys.com Gary __________________ Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF

August 29th, 2004, 06:44 AM	#11
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	just note that u dont need excalibur to get good multicam cuts with vegas.. although its a good program which offers a series of scripts, u can easily sync your video on the timelines within vegas by lining up the audio. When cutting, In each track, u just run a PiP so u can see both footage and as u watch just hit the S key whenever u want to split or cut to the other cam.. then u can either move the clips down into ur main timeline, render to a new track or just leave it with both tracks active & unmuted

August 29th, 2004, 09:04 AM	#12
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Peter, Thats the workaround for all the nle's. I think he is looking for an "Open timeline, switch between" solution.

August 31st, 2004, 11:17 AM	#13
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	oh ok.. easy done.. set up Vegas with Midi.. now run an opacity controller change into vegas from ur midi controller, u could assign use a slider, or knob, but if u want to switch to the appropriate midi channel and command CC, then just set up a key or button to send out set values (0 and 100) to the Opacity of that track :)

August 31st, 2004, 09:29 PM	#14
Chris Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington ON, Canada Posts: 118	I use premiere, with the style Mike mentioned, split screen the 2 cameras, each on a different video track. Premiere 6.5 or later allows a realtime preview, that is perfect for rough cuts, no rendering required. I line up the 2 video tracks to a camera flash, or you can use a clap stick, eye blink, anything both can see. In premiere, it is as simple as watching the video in realtime, using the keyboard shortcuts for marking in and out points ('l' = camera 1 ';' = camera 2), then lifting the video from the upper track. once the whole thing is done, I go back and fine tune the in and outs, remove the motion filter to make the video full screen again, and apply the fades if required. No plugins required, very speedy. I can usually get through a 30 minute shoot in under an hour to the final cut.