Take me to your leader... at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > Non-Linear Editing on the PC

Non-Linear Editing on the PC
Discussing the editing of all formats with Matrox, Pinnacle and more.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 4th, 2005, 10:26 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: williamsport, pa
Posts: 604
Take me to your leader...

I'm about to jump into HDV editing as soon as the Sony HC1 comes out. Meaning, I need a non-linear software editing program. Can anyone make a recommendation based on my peculiar preferences...
1--For insert editing, a timeline or storyboard approach where you drop the video to be inserted onto a second timeline overhead so that it's always visible.
2--Has a fast learning curve
3-Has a good means of managing lots of clips, preferably many visible clip frames that can be seen at a time.
4--Allows more than two audio tracks (hopefully not a dumb request)
5--Good for documentary projects. I don't need the latest special effects, just straight-forward long form editing.
6--And finally, the option of being able to use something other than a mouse to primarily edit with.
Is this attainable in HDV? I've been using an editing appliance (ScreenPlay) for the past 5 years so I've been tainted by its simplicity. I guess the party's over now and it's time to enter the big leagues. Any suggestons? Thanks in advance.
Lynne Whelden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2005, 07:19 PM   #2
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 8
Editing HD

What is your general budget if you have one? Avid Xpress Pro HD will do everything you want and more, but it will be a bit expensive. (About $1695 MSRP) Additionally, It will need a pretty powerful computer.

If you are a student, running Final Cut Pro HD will be alot more friendly to your credid card and will be able to do most anything you need.

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...utingpage.html

You can also look into Adobe Premier Pro 1.5 which would be a great choice if you can qualify for student discounts. Look into the Adobe Video collection on

www.campustech.com or www.studica.com
Liam Dempsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2005, 07:52 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: williamsport, pa
Posts: 604
thanks...

Thanks for your reply. I wish there was a way to see these various editing systems side-by-side to see how they each handle the issues of concern to me (insert editing especially, intuitive interface too).
No, I'm not a student and am willing to spend what it takes to find a system I can live with for a long time. I've gotten some ads recently from the Avid folks that show that Digi 002 "control surface." I like dedicated hardware stuff like that.
Are you aware of any web site that compares editing interfaces? Or is Avid a stand-out because it makes more sense than the others? later--lynne
Lynne Whelden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2005, 09:57 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,750
The Digi 003 I believe is a control surface for Pro Tools (audio editing). I don't think it does anything for video editing. It may make audio editing a little faster, because you can move faders on the control surface instead of rubberbanding everything.
Glenn Chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2005, 10:36 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 3,840
Avid has keystrokes for every mouse move. Some people almost never touch the mouse, and claim it's much faster. I'm about half and half.

The AvidXpressPro Suite comes with the audio board that runs with the audio program. But if you're concentratin on docs, then the suite might be overkill with the 3D apps and all.

Avid Xpress Free DV is a free download you can try to get a feel for the interface. It's very limited, and only allows a couple of tracks for audio and some simple transistions, but you'll get a feel for how the thing works.

Likewise Premiere and Vegas and others, have 'demo' versions that are time locked and feature locked as well.

You really can try before you buy.
Richard Alvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2005, 10:40 PM   #6
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 8
Dedicated Hardware

Glenn is correct in saying the Digi 002 is a control surface for ProToolsLE, the industry leader in sound editing. Digidesign, the maker of ProTools is owned by Avid. The majority of editing systems made by Avid rely on dedicated hardware and if you are "willing to spend what it takes to find a system you can live with for a long time," I think Avid is definitely the best choice.

http://www.avid.com/solutions/hd/
Liam Dempsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 07:12 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: williamsport, pa
Posts: 604
The winners are...

For HDV editing then, are the main contenders I should look at:
Final Cut Pro
Premiere
Vegas
&
Avid?
They seem to be the ones mentioned most often.
Lynne Whelden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 09:09 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 3,840
Lynne

Your list is simply a list of the most used NLE systems, period.

Avid has the largest market share overall, because the high-end systems for broadcast and filmmaking are mostly Avid. Avid has been around the longest and is generally considered the industry standard. (And Avid has just purchased Pinnacle systems) Avid I think, is still the only NLE that ships with versions for MAC and PC in each box.

Final Cut is moving up fast from the IndyPro shops and Ad Agencies, making serious inroads into film productions. But still, way down the list in market share. Final Cut only runs on Macs.

Premiere has a huge leap on the event/prosumer market, because for a long time, it came bundled with various computers and hardware cards. PC only

Vegas (PC only) is the 'new kid' on the block, comming as is does from an audio editing paradigm, it has a distinctly different user interface and workflow. Lots of people like it. Sony has a 'high end' editing app called Xpri that operates more like Avid... time will tell if Sony will change Vegas to mirror Xpri's interface which is more like the industry standard ... Avid.

Avid XpressPro does not capture/cut HDV at the moment. They are polishing up their workflow and codec now, and it's slated for release in Septermber... ish. Right now, people are using other apps to convert and edit with. So keep that in mind.
Richard Alvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 09:36 AM   #9
Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 751
Don't forget Canopus Edius

The Edius 3.0 software will edit HDv files without any special hardware. Add the edius NX for HDV hardware and you've got a very nice real-time HDV workflow.

Edius NX for HDV gives you the same level of real-time performance and stability DV Storm users have had for years, only with HDV footage. We are running Edius NX for HDV on our new DIY3 machine and we are blown away by the real-time performance. What makes Edius NX for HDV different from the other HDV solutions is that you can view the HD footage in real-time, full resolution on an HD monitor via the component output.

http://www.videoguys.com/ediusNX.html

Gary
__________________
Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF
Gary Bettan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 09:39 AM   #10
Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 751
HDV is coming for Avid Xpress Pro HD

Avid Xpress Pro HD does not yet have support for HDV. Avid is working diligently on this and we hope tohave HDV available this summer. Avid will be combining native HDV support with their DNxHD CODEC.

DNxHD is Avid's biggest weapon in the upcoming HD race. How you edit, manage, store and move around all this beautiful HD footage is the biggest challenge ahead. Uncompressed HD files are MASSIVE. And they require not only enourmous storage solutions, but super fat pipes move it.

With DNxHD you get all of the great quality of HD (in every imaginable format) at a fraction of the bandwidth. Avid ran something they called the DNxHD challenge. They had HD images with a split somewhere inside it. Comparing uncompressed HD footage and DNxHD footage. No one can tell the difference. Including Hollywood professionals who had the test done privatley for them on the best glass available.

DNxHD technology is in every Avid HD product. On the more affordable Xpress ProHD level, you'll be able to ingest HDV via FireWire or DVCPRO50 via P2 cards and edit away. For heavy compositing, graphics, keying and animations you'll be able to use DNxHD for fantastic quality and efficient storage utilization.

For now you'll need Adreneline class hardware or better for SDI & uncompressed HD ingest, but given the competitive landscape I don't think Avid is going to be able to avoid giving us a MojoHD with SDI and uncompressed HD capabilities. [Note: pure speculation on my part - I have no actual knowledge of any such product being in developement]

While every NLE out there today has an HD path, I think Avid's is going to prove the winner. We don't need uncompressed HD editing with $10,000 external storage solutions. We need a manageable HD editing solution that takes advantage of the power, speed and performance of computer technology. DNxHD provides this capability.

The media management tools in Avid are second to none. It is the standard by which all other NLEs are judged, and no other NLE comes close here. The more clips/footage you have, and the more time you spend editing, the more important this becomes.

http://www.videoguys.com/XpressProHD.html

Gary
__________________
Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF
Gary Bettan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 09:44 AM   #11
Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 751
Premeire Pro & Aspect HD

I'm not very impressed with the natice HDV support in Premeire Pro. It is slow and clunky. Unfortunately the chips on real-time cards like Matrox RTX100 and Canopus DV Storm can not support the higher resolutions. So what is a Premeire pro editor to do to get real-tiem HDV performance?

Cineform Aspect HD is the solution! Think of AspectHD as a software accelerator for Premiere Pro. It works just like a real-time hardware accelerator but with this new technology - it's software only! Now you can get real-time tranisitions, filter sna dneffects with HDV footage in Premiere Pro. The new 3.1 version is the first to offer special support for the progressive CineFrame™ modes in Sony’s HDR-FX1 and HVR-Z1 HDV camcorders. Aspect HD (v3.1) for Adobe® Premiere® Pro can create a 24-frame progressive output file while ingesting footage shot in Sony’s CineFrame modes.

http://www.videoguys.com/cineform.html

Gary
__________________
Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF
Gary Bettan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 09:49 AM   #12
Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 751
Vegas 6 with HDV support!

The new verison 6 of Sony Vegas has full support for the new Sony HDV cams. You'll see that many folks refer to Vegas as the 'new kid on the block' or the 'best kept secret in video editing'. This is becuase it doesn't get near the publicity of these othter well known apps. But vegas has a loyal and thriving and growing community of users. The interface will take gettingused to - it's based on audio workstation software. but once you get the hang of it, it's truly remarkable how stable it is and how smooth the workflow is.

Teh audio toolset in vegas is by far and awya the best of any NLE on the market. I love how well it handles photomotages. Vegas users can share scripts with eachother, so their is a vast (pun intended) collection of low cost or affordable plug-ins that add additional functionality to Vegas.

http://www.videoguys.com/vegasvideo.html

Gary
__________________
Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF
Gary Bettan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 09:56 AM   #13
Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 751
Lets not forget Pinnacle Liquid Edition

I've been a huge fan of this software since I was was first shown it by a couple of german guys from Fast. The technology under the hood here is still ahead of the industry.

Background rendering allows you to keep editing while your computer renders whats needed in the background. you never have to wait, and when the background rendering is complete, you can immediately play your timeline in full resolution and speed. Actually you can even begin playing while background editing is working on later parts of the timeline.

the integrated DVD authoring form the timeline is limited compared to what you can do with EncoreDVD or even Sonis DVDit!, but it's a super cool feature. And for 90% of your projects I think you'll find it more than adequate.

Liquid Edition also leverages the GPU powwer of your graphics card to deliver addtional real-time perfomance.

LE6.1 now has excellent HDV support for the new Sony HDV cams.

http://www.videoguys.com/edition.html

Gary
__________________
Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF
Gary Bettan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 10:04 AM   #14
Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 751
Check out Shuttel Pro 2

And finally, the option of being able to use something other than a mouse to primarily edit with.

You can add the Contour Design Shuttel pro 2 to whatever NLE you decide to go with. It will give you joig shuttel control of your clips. it also has dedicated buttoms that you can program with your favorite keyboard shortcuts.

http://www.videoguys.com/contour.htm

Speaking of keyboard shortcuts. You will be interested to know that most NLEs come with a slew of keyboard shortcuts to make editing easier. What's the best way to learna nd use them? Easy! Get a color coded keybaord like the Bella EZ Key Professinal series. These not only include the shortcuts, but you get an integrated jog shuttel controller

http://www.videoguys.com/EZkeys.html

Gary
__________________
Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF
Gary Bettan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2005, 12:45 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: williamsport, pa
Posts: 604
Thanks!

I appreciate all your feedback. Is there a store in the US where all of these editing programs are set up side-by-side for demonstration and comparison? Kinda like the way Video Expo does cameras? Or maybe a video that's been produced to illustrate the differences and advantages?
Lynne Whelden is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > Non-Linear Editing on the PC

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:31 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network