G-RAID FW400 & WinXP: Fast enough for DV? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > Non-Linear Editing on the PC

Non-Linear Editing on the PC
Discussing the editing of all formats with Matrox, Pinnacle and more.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 14th, 2005, 11:37 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Westfield, IN
Posts: 353
G-RAID FW400 & WinXP: Fast enough for DV?

I'm considering a G-RAID Firewire 400 external drive to connect to my Pentium 4 system. The G-Tech web site promises 7 layers of DV over Firewire 800. Can I safely assume that I could edit half that (3 layers of DV) over a Firewire 400 connection?

How much RAID-0 storage capacity will I get with the 500GB model -- 500GB or 250GB?

Thanks,

T.J.
Tim Borek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2005, 02:53 PM   #2
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Borek
How much RAID-0 storage capacity will I get with the 500GB model -- 500GB or 250GB?
For RAID (Random array of inexpensive disks) you will need two completely similar drives, and a RAID controller. As far as i know (i might be wrong), it is not possible to use RAID over the firewire protocol.

You would be better of buying two internal 250 gb disks, and link them up in raid 0. Or if you have the money RAID 0+1, but that will require 4 similar disks, and a more expensive controller with 4 channels. RAID 0, is where you split the data over the two disks, thereby doubling the performance. In 0+1, you split it over two disks, and at the same time backing it up over the two other disks.
So you actually have 2 disks with exactly the same content, thereby almost removing the chance of data-loss.

Hope you understood.

Mark
__________________
Carpe Noctem
Mark Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2005, 11:22 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Westfield, IN
Posts: 353
Thanks, Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Olsen
For RAID (Random array of inexpensive disks) you will need two completely similar drives, and a RAID controller. As far as i know (i might be wrong), it is not possible to use RAID over the firewire protocol.

You would be better of buying two internal 250 gb disks, and link them up in raid 0. Or if you have the money RAID 0+1, but that will require 4 similar disks, and a more expensive controller with 4 channels. RAID 0, is where you split the data over the two disks, thereby doubling the performance. In 0+1, you split it over two disks, and at the same time backing it up over the two other disks.
So you actually have 2 disks with exactly the same content, thereby almost removing the chance of data-loss.

Hope you understood.

Mark
I think Maark either misread my question or doesn't know how the G-RAID works, but he did partially answer my question. Because the 500GB model has twin 250GB drives hardware-configured as RAID 0, my computer will treat it as a single 250GB volume.

I'm hoping someone who actually uses these drives for DV editing will answer my other question about performance with Windows XP SP1a.

Regards,

T.J.
Tim Borek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2005, 02:52 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Borek
Because the 500GB model has twin 250GB drives hardware-configured as RAID 0, my computer will treat it as a single 250GB volume.
The G-RAID has an integrated RAID 0 controller, so the two 250 GB hard drives should appear as one 500 GB hard drive to the OS.

As the G-Tech Web site says,

"Blazing Fast FireWire 800 Interface with Integrated RAID Technology
Throughput is key to high performance. And G-RAID is all about performance. Two of the fastest hard drives available are striped together with G-RAIDs on-board RAID controller to guarantee consistent performance over the full capacity of the unit. G-RAID is simply put the fastest FireWire storage you can buy."

Thus, you can have RAID over IEEE 1394.

I don't have one of these units, so I'm afraid I can't answer your question about performance over an IEEE 1394a connection. However, it would seem that if one wanted to invest in one of these units and didn't have an IEEE 1394b port on the computer, that it would make sense to get one of the IEEE 1394b PCI/CardBus expansion cards that G-Tech sells (and that can probably be gotten other places as well). Otherwise, what is the point of getting such a fast Firewire RAID storage system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Borek
I'm hoping someone who actually uses these drives for DV editing will answer my other question about performance with Windows XP SP1a.
The G-RAID install guide only lists Windows XP as a requirement - there is no mention of a particular service pack requirement. In fact, G-Tech has posted a firmware update for the G-RAID systems to overcome a speed limitation that Windows XP SP2 imposes on Firewire devices.
__________________
Christopher Lefchik :: My Spot on the WWW

:: Got questions? Need answers? Try a DV Info search! ::
Christopher Lefchik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2005, 01:05 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Westfield, IN
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik
I don't have one of these units, so I'm afraid I can't answer your question about performance over an IEEE 1394a connection. However, it would seem that if one wanted to invest in one of these units and didn't have an IEEE 1394b port on the computer, that it would make sense to get one of the IEEE 1394b PCI/CardBus expansion cards that G-Tech sells (and that can probably be gotten other places as well). Otherwise, what is the point of getting such a fast Firewire RAID storage system?


The G-RAID install guide only lists Windows XP as a requirement - there is no mention of a particular service pack requirement. In fact, G-Tech has posted a firmware update for the G-RAID systems to overcome a speed limitation that Windows XP SP2 imposes on Firewire devices.
The G-Tech fine print says 800Mbps performanced can only be achieved when the 1394b card is seated in a 64-bit PCI slot, which I don't have. I'm not buying a new motherboard to accommodate an external hard drive. Maybe the G-SATA drive is the way to go, but that limits portability because most PCs don't have external SATA ports (yet).

As for the XP SP2 glitch, it's a prime example of why I haven't installed SP2. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" -- my NLE machine running SP1a meets my needs just fine. I couldn't care less about the security features of SP2, because my NLE computer's not networked.
Tim Borek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2005, 02:36 PM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,152
A quick Google search revealed that there are other IEEE 1394b PCI cards that don't require a 64bit PCI slot. See this one, for example: http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/def...spx?EDC=812328
__________________
Christopher Lefchik :: My Spot on the WWW

:: Got questions? Need answers? Try a DV Info search! ::
Christopher Lefchik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2005, 03:26 PM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,152
After a little more searching, I see that a number of different IEEE 1394b PCI cards say they require a 64-bit PCI slot to function at full speed (I wonder if the one I linked to does as well?). According to one online store (http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_...roducts_id/651):

Quote:
1394b is designed for full performance in a 64 bit slot. The card will function in a 32 bit slot but not give the same performance as in a 64 bit slot. When acting as a PCI bus master (cardbus is a subset of PCI), the device is capable of multiple cacheline bursts of data, which can transfer at 264M bytes/s for 64-bit slot transfers or 132M bytes/s for 32-bit slot transfers.
If this is true, then a 32-bit slot should provide enough bandwidth for a FireWire 800 card, as the PCI bus has a top transfer rate of at least 100 MB/s, and that is the theoretical limit of IEEE 1394b anyway. This should be true in regards to the G-RAID, as two 7200rpm hard drives in RAID 0 may get as high as 70-75 Mb/s sustained transfer rate.
__________________
Christopher Lefchik :: My Spot on the WWW

:: Got questions? Need answers? Try a DV Info search! ::
Christopher Lefchik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 14th, 2005, 10:42 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Westfield, IN
Posts: 353
G-Tech G-SATA external hard drive array

Christopher,

As far as G-Tech drives go, I've set my sights on the G-SATA. It includes a PCI card with two external SATA ports and two cables. A G-RAID Firewire 800 drive and 1394b card costs just as much as a G-SATA kit, so for me this is the way to go.

Thank you for your research.

T.J.
Tim Borek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 24th, 2005, 09:29 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 204
Firewire 800 card for PCIe

I had come to the same conclusion that Firewire 800 was only possible with a 64-bit PCIx card. 64bit slots only seem to be available on high-end workstations and servers, not your typical desktop machine. However, after MUCH searching I did find a Firewire 800 card for a 1x PCI Express slot: http://www.koutech.com/proddetail.asp?linenumber=268

So, I know my PC (Dell 8400) has one 1x PCIe slot, so I think I might give this card a shot and see if it works at full speed.
__________________
Webb Pickersgill
Bassline Digital, LLC
Webb Pickersgill is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > Non-Linear Editing on the PC

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:28 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network