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Non-Linear Editing on the PC
Discussing the editing of all formats with Matrox, Pinnacle and more.


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Old April 4th, 2003, 03:19 PM   #16
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Josh: I think Lars is referring to the trimmer. If you haven't seen it, it's a right-click option on any media file almost anywhere in the interface. Takes a little getting used to, but can be helpful sometimes.
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Old April 4th, 2003, 03:58 PM   #17
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Here is what scares me about Vegas Video:

AVID - Avid Xpress DV 23.99
APPLE - Final Cut Pro 14.41
ADOBE - Premiere 32.20
PINNACLE - Edition 11.30
SONIC FOUNDRY - Vegas Video .41

This was the price for a share of stock when I checked them all 2 minutes ago. I won't even get into market caps.

I have never really given Vegas any serious thought or even considered looking into it for the simple reason that the company may not be around for the long haul. Sure, someone could come in and buy them, but usually when that happens, the product suffers as it gets rolled into the new company's product line and idealogy.

Does anyone have information that supports SF being around to support the product for a long time?

just my 2 cents.
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Old April 4th, 2003, 04:23 PM   #18
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First of all, if you are editing Multi-Cam, Vegas is extremely easy to use. And it is getting easier! There are some scripts that will be included with Gary Kleiner's instructional video that greatly simplifies multi-cam editing. You'll be surprised what can be accomplished! See here for information on the tape:

http://www.creativecow.net/forum/rea...335&forumid=24

And, yes, Vegas has a trimmer window - but I don't use it.
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Old April 4th, 2003, 04:46 PM   #19
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Carl,
Take a look at Alias/Wavefront. They have had the same problems and for years people have said that they will close their doors. This hasn't happened yet and most likely will not. Same with Avid...Mircosoft or not to Microsoft. Now Microsoft owns most of Avid anyways.
I wouldnt worry about a company puttting out such a great program then next day disappear in a cloud of smoke. They will be around long enough.


Rob:D

PS- talk is talk but look at the money and you will see.
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Old April 4th, 2003, 05:11 PM   #20
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Oh THAT trim window. Yes, I use that sometimes. I thought you meant like the AVID's trimmer window.
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Old April 4th, 2003, 05:19 PM   #21
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what can xpress dv do that vegas 4 can't? why is xpress dv3.5 so much more expensive?
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Old April 4th, 2003, 06:56 PM   #22
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Whoa now back the truck up. . .I just mentioned a trimmer window. More important for narrative type editing, I'd think.
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Old April 4th, 2003, 07:27 PM   #23
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Carl,

Sonic Foundry has seen much tough times and actually they are just hanging by a thread, but if we continue to use their products they will be around for awhile. I think a major in the business model is that they use the download only strategy a lot, and these are some considerably pricy merchandise. We are consumers and as consumers we love to purchase things that we can manipulate and physically hold in our hands, one that comes from a comically huge box, it makes us feel like we are truly getting our money's worth. Now this may not apply to anyone here, but imagine an average Joe or Jane ?

Brian and others thanks for the link, I think Premiere will have to be set free for the meantime...:)
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Old April 4th, 2003, 07:41 PM   #24
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Why is it more expensive?
Avid.
Everyone has by now heard of them or will hear of them.

Nike or Converse
Which shoe cost more?
Which has more money?
Why do they charge more?

Its all about making a name for themselves. They got the name, and the tools, So they feel they can charge more and still keep the same spot in the market. Who is going to buy something that no one knows about?
Would you trust the company that you constantly hear about. Or would you want to waste your money on some company that you never heard of?

Rob:D
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Old April 4th, 2003, 07:48 PM   #25
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I guess the price keeps them inside the mentality of the average consumer thinking that they are better. By borrowing your analogy, Nike cost more than Converse therefore Nike must be better. I'm broke now but when I get some money I will buy Nike. It is imbedded in many consumer's minds, Ferrari's cost more than Toyotas, therefore they much be better, in some aspects, yes, but $250,000 better I highly doubt it, especially since we have a speed limit. But staying on track, You guys may know, what can I as a videographer do in Avid that Vegas won't do?
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Old April 5th, 2003, 12:43 AM   #26
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stock
AVID - Avid Xpress DV 23.99
APPLE - Final Cut Pro 14.41
ADOBE - Premiere 32.20
PINNACLE - Edition 11.30
SONIC FOUNDRY - Vegas Video .41

i'm not s sure stock price will equal a product will be around for a long time ... how many NLE's/boards has pinnicle used/had in past 3-5 years and are they all still here ?

any one of these stock could be under $1 within a year ? when i was playing the stock market every broker said the safest place to put your $$ for a guarantee 7% return was PG&E and they are now in chapeter 11 or is it 7 and they suspended the 7% dividend ? same with united airlines ..who would have thought 2 years ago that all these airlines would be filing for protection ? looking at the above list i sure wouldn't invest in apple or avid and adobe is a bit over priced ... if you want a safe place to put your $$ IMO CASH is the best at the moment.
if you are looking for a excellent NLE to spend your cash and you use your NLE for your projects or your own business ( shooting dv) then i recommend Vegas4 ... if you are looking for a NLE editor to work in the FILM BUSINESS then the sure bet is AVID , a not so sure bet is FCP but FCP is making inroads but it is NOT a sure NLE that will get you hired/jobs in hollywood ... now based upon "history" and covering every format AVID is the leader ... but if you work in dv then you can get much more value for your $$ choosing any of the others. FCP offers many combinations of formats to edit in and is a good value for the $$ and as long as apple is around it will stay the same price and offer more each year.
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Old April 5th, 2003, 07:27 AM   #27
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I've lost enough in the market over the years to realize 1 thing. In a case like this, a software company, specifically, an NLE, I don't need a wall street broker to tell me if I should get it or not.
Worst case, lets say SoFo went under this year. If you have the product and are happy with it and it works and does the job you bought it to do, does it matter? Think about it! So in 2 years you won't have the support you have now, OK, you've got 1-2 years to check out and buy and learn another piece of software. Software changes ALL the time. Hardware changes ALL the time. You know one of the BEST hardware/software combos around went under about 10-12 years ago, I wish I had 1 and I know about 6 guys that do and swear by them, is the Amiga! Don't laugh. They were and are REAL TIME, No rendering, animations galore, a real good titler. Of course,trying to get the machine fixed today can be a problem, but there are people who still do it. Obviously Toaster software is the newest generation of the Amiga, but my point is, if you have a good or better than good product that people buy and use, who really cares if the stock is $.41 or $41.00. What if the company were privately held, you'd NEVER know if they were in financial trouble or not.
If you like the product buy it, use it, go forth and make video, if you don't like, keep looking till you find something that meets your needs, not your brokers! :}
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Old April 5th, 2003, 07:35 AM   #28
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Just for reference, not trying to start a war, Apple has a little over 4 billion in cash (and cash equivalent) reserves. FCP 4 should be announced in a few days at NAB. I subscribe to several different job email services (related to video). Almost half the positions are for FCP editors, the other half Avid. I've never seen a listing for a Vegas editor. Never. The latest rumors have Apple and Adobe exploring a merger/sale again. Probably just rumor, but you never know. I'd rather see Apple get their hands on Adobe than Microsoft. I can't imagine Photoshop after Microsoft got done tinkering with it.
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Old April 5th, 2003, 10:03 AM   #29
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I remember when Apple was on it's last legs. How far they have come. You're right, in the "pro" ranks, it's either FCP or Avid, some of that I believe though might have to do with the old "we've always used (insert name) and we're not changing" thinking. I was a dedicated Pinnacle user, even used (tried to) Edition. I said before, it's a good product, powerful, easier to use than Avid, (for me at least) BUT...in the final analysis, I went to Vegas because I didn't have to spend hours of frustration getting it to work on my new machine, didn't have to spend hours learning how to bring in or start to edit a project because the interface was convaluted and for the money, I decided for my purposes it worked fine. I actually would have preferred to get another NLE that's ALL real time, easy to use and produces a great end result , but I just didn't have an extra $2500 for the software. No, I am not one of those who is a screaming banshee about my NLE, all I'm saying is that a lot of people that do professional work are switching over (any number of reasons). Notice I did not say professional editors, but a lot of people I know in the biz, weddings, events, training, seminars, etc... frankly I don't care what software you use, if you like it, it does the job you want it to do, it's stable on your system, and you're comfortable and happy with it, USE IT! I'm not looking for a job as a professional editor. I'm way too old, don't like editiing anyway and never have nor ever will work for someone else so I know I'm not worried about what the ads say.
OK, back to editing :)
(this is how I keep my sanity, I edit, go online, edit, go online...)
Don
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Old April 5th, 2003, 11:54 AM   #30
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Just to clarify a few things .

I'm not a broker and I don't have a broker. If you ever meet me you'll know that I'm the farthest thing from wall street you'll ever see.

My point was simple, if the longetivity of the product is important to you, you better look at the company that it is producing it. That's it. You're more than welcome to use whatever software you want for whatever reasons you want.

For me, I don't want to invest the time and money in learning something so big and face the possibility that I will have to start from square 1 in another year. I've had it happen to me in the past, so that is why I bring this up.

I suppose to make my point a little better, I should bring up the market caps. Here is the definition I "stole" off the MSN Money site for non-investor types:

Market Capitalization
The value of a company's outstanding shares, as measured by shares times current price. Speaking very generally, the larger the market capitalization, the safer the company. Firms with very small market capitalizations can be unusually risky.

APPLE 5.195 BILLION
ADOBE 7.441 BILLION
AVID 666.5 MILLION
PINNACLE 705.5 MILLION
SONIC FOUNDRY 11.4 MILLION

Maybe that helps put the size of the companies in perspective a little better.

This is heading the direction of off-topic so I'll try to steer it back by asking the question:

From a capabilities standpoint how does Edition stack up against Premiere?

Thanks

Carl
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