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Old June 25th, 2007, 02:07 PM   #1
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Apparently a Tough Question....

...I've had no luck on the other fora finding an answer to this:

I'm looking for a PC-based HDV capture tool that can rotate the incoming image 180 degrees AND do this without converting to an intermediate codec. Does such a software exist?

My footage is (inverted) 720p 24 ProHD. Thanks!
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Old June 26th, 2007, 09:04 AM   #2
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Check out the products from CineForm:
http://www.cineform.com/products/Aspect-Prospect.htm
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Old June 26th, 2007, 09:20 AM   #3
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Check out the products from CineForm:
http://www.cineform.com/products/Aspect-Prospect.htm
Thanks, but....Cineform uses an intermediate codec.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 12:26 PM   #4
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Sorry! I totally blew past the "no intermediate codec" portion of your original post.

In that case, I don't know of any solution. I say just turn your monitor upside down. ;)

What software are you using to edit?
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Old June 26th, 2007, 06:48 PM   #5
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http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm

Actually this is a good capture solution (I currently have an old Connect version) with an image flip function for lens adaptors. You can capture straight m2t HDV without going into the Cineform codec. I've done it several times before with CineformConnect and HDLink in 720/30 and 24 from JVC HD 100, I'm sure and that Neo works the same. It is a check box that says M2, but it works with any flipped image. It also supports batch capture and conversion utilities. Worth the money in my opinion.

Good Luck
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Old June 26th, 2007, 11:36 PM   #6
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http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm
You can capture straight m2t HDV without going into the Cineform codec. I've done it several times before with CineformConnect and HDLink in 720/30 and 24 from JVC HD 100, I'm sure and that Neo works the same.
Thanks David....but I'm a little confused. David Newman says that the NeoHD ouput is AVI. I was under the impression that all Cineform products used an intermediate codec. Here's the response:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=97404
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Old June 26th, 2007, 11:39 PM   #7
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Sorry! I totally blew past the "no intermediate codec" portion of your original post.In that case, I don't know of any solution. I say just turn your monitor upside down. ;) What software are you using to edit?
I'm in the process of setting up a Liquid Chrome Xe system with a xw8400 workstation. I plan on running Avid XpressHD on the same machine.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 03:41 AM   #8
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In Premiere this would be easy, just apply a Vertical Flip effect to your sequence. It does not change to an intermediate codec, but also it does not apply the effect during capture, you need to apply it to your time line.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 09:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jon Springer View Post
Thanks David....but I'm a little confused. David Newman says that the NeoHD ouput is AVI. I was under the impression that all Cineform products used an intermediate codec. Here's the response:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=97404
Interesting. NEO offers the option of capturing with a Quicktime or AVI wrapper while maintaining the Cineform Codec. I have the same edit software as you. I'll download the NEO trial update and test tonight to see if it works with Liquid and Xpress. They may have taken that m2t option out. My version of HDLink is almost 16 months old.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 11:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by David Parks View Post
Interesting. NEO offers the option of capturing with a Quicktime or AVI wrapper while maintaining the Cineform Codec. I have the same edit software as you. I'll download the NEO trial update and test tonight to see if it works with Liquid and Xpress. They may have taken that m2t option out. My version of HDLink is almost 16 months old.
Jon, I downloaded NEO HDV and it still has the option of bypassing the Cineform during capture. In perferences under capture options you select
"Capture only the MPEG2-TS file (.m2t)". So NEO HDV will do exactly what you want. Capture flipped video into m2t and then you can import into Liquid and Xpress directly. I'm going to do a test with the QT wrapper later.


Cheers.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 12:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Harm Millaard View Post
In Premiere this would be easy, just apply a Vertical Flip effect to your sequence. It does not change to an intermediate codec, but also it does not apply the effect during capture, you need to apply it to your time line.
Yes...the same can be done in Liquid, but I'm looking for a solution to eliminate the need for effects/rendering in the timeline. Plus some NLE's produce a loss in resolution when applying such an effect to clip...I'm not sure if this is true with Premiere.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 12:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by David Parks View Post
Jon, I downloaded NEO HDV and it still has the option of bypassing the Cineform during capture. In perferences under capture options you select
"Capture only the MPEG2-TS file (.m2t)". So NEO HDV will do exactly what you want. Capture flipped video into m2t and then you can import into Liquid and Xpress directly. I'm going to do a test with the QT wrapper later. Cheers.
Excellent...thanks for doing that. It sounds like this is the solution I need for the job. Let me know about any other results you come up with.

Jon
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Old June 27th, 2007, 05:46 PM   #13
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oh brother....

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Parks View Post
"Capture only the MPEG2-TS file (.m2t)". So NEO HDV will do exactly what you want. Capture flipped video into m2t and then you can import into Liquid and Xpress directly. I'm going to do a test with the QT wrapper later. Cheers.
David,

I got some more info from Cineform....bypassing the Cineform codec involves no additional processing of the image, so it does NOT allow you to do the M2 flip if you capture .m2t files directly.

Back to square one, I suppose.
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Old June 28th, 2007, 08:34 AM   #14
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Jon,

Sorry about that. I did do a test last night converting m2t 720/30 video to Cineform w QT wrapper using NEO. And then was able to import it into Avid Xpress in a 720/60p project (Non HDV) at DNXHD 220 and 145. And they held up well. It was pretty fast and certainly faster than MPEGstreamclip.

Food for thought. I know it takes a compression a hit, but going from Cineform (QT wrapper) to DNXHD worked much better than I thought it would. It might be worth it to you to download the free 15 day demo from Cineform's website. It couldn't hurt to give it try.

Good Luck
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Old June 28th, 2007, 09:50 AM   #15
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Edius Pro 4.0 can capture it in HDV and do a flip on the timeline realtime without rendering if your system is fast enough.
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