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Old September 26th, 2007, 09:35 AM   #1
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Firewire splitter - is there such a thing?

This has been discussed three years ago (http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=27632), with no sure solution. I wonder if there has been any progress made on this subject.

I need to take standard def DV out of the video switcher via firewire and use it for two, preferably three purposes: live video transmission, direct DVD recording, and possibly full quality recording for postprocessing.

The video switcher is analog only for now (Datavideo SE-800) but can be upgraded with a $500 firewire output card. From here I would like to take the signal and input it into these three devices - is this possible? I know it works the other way around as I have inputted two camcorders into a multiple input firewire card on the PC, and then did camera switching for live streaming with Windows Media Encoder... glitchy (when switching) but it works.

I guess the real question is, does the firewire protocol make this possible, and did any manufacturer come up with such a box yet?

Thanks,
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Old October 1st, 2007, 11:48 AM   #2
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No such thing...

If after 57 people viewing my question I got no answer... it can only mean one thing, the one I didn't want to hear: that there is no such thing.

Correct?
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Old October 1st, 2007, 04:42 PM   #3
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I'm sure it would be possible with a fast enough processor and several lines, perhaps in a separate device, but that would be pretty complex.
I don't know anything about the specific technical aspects of firewire, but from what I can tell, it communicates directly with a device, so it would probably get confused as well as overloaded by having too many signals.

There are firewire hubs, and I have used them, so it is apparently possible to split the wires, but I don't know if the signal can be split within that.

Daisy chaining external drives is also possible.

It would be nice if this was the case. Not looking great, though.

I think that device control would likely go haywire, but I'm not sure why the other data would have trouble.

And, sorry, I don't know of any such specific devices.


(I know this post isn't entirely helpful, but since you are hoping for a reply, at least this will be something...)
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Old October 1st, 2007, 04:50 PM   #4
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You can definitely create two copies. Just plug your source into one port on your PC's FireWire interface and connect two others to the other two ports. The incoming signal will be duplicated on the others. The PC doesn't need to do anything - just needs to be turned on.

In an upcoming new version of our DV processing software you will be able to take a single incoming DV stream and pump it out to as many DV devices as you care to. There's no significant CPU processing required even a PIII system could comfortably manage it. We also intend to build on that and allow multiple inputs to be switched and feed a selected input live to the output devices.

John.

EDIT - Having re-read the original post, I can state that our new version can do exactly what you describe: take a live DV feed (not HDV at this time), record one copy to disk or, e.g., an external DVD recorder and, at the same time, take a second copy and send it out live to another DV device.

In a specific application that we have just finished for a client, the second output actually becomes the input to Windows Media Encoder and, in real-time, the video is converted to WMV and streamed over a network. Additionally, between incoming and outgoing, logos are inserted.

This will be put into production fairly soon to stream all high school athletic events throughout Wisconsin live over the internet.
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 04:46 AM   #5
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Routing Switcher

In the analog world what you would want would be a distribution amplifier or DA. Or you might use a more complex device: a routing switcher.

In the digital world a simple DA wonít work but I have found a small routing switcher that claims to do just what you want: the Kramer VS-66FW. You can download the manual at http://www.kramerelectronics.com/.


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Old October 2nd, 2007, 09:39 AM   #6
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Am I dreaming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John F Miller View Post
Having re-read the original post, I can state that our new version can do exactly what you describe: take a live DV feed (not HDV at this time), record one copy to disk or, e.g., an external DVD recorder and, at the same time, take a second copy and send it out live to another DV device.
John, that's awesome! Here are my very specific needs. I am mixing component video (yes, I care that much about quality!) coming from 3 cameras plus a scan converter, using a Datavideo SE-800, which is analog only for now, but I will buy the digital output module, so I will have one DV firewire output. I would love to use your software to add lower thirds, then stream it live (Windows Media Encoder), make a full DV quality recording to the hard drive (better yet an external, USB drive), AND record on the spot to a direct to DVD recorder via firewire, all at the same time, while monitoring scopes and levels.

Can you confirm that I'm not dreaming?

Thanks,
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 10:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin Farkas View Post
Can you confirm that I'm not dreaming?
Hi Ervin,

No - you aren't dreaming!

Feel free to send me a PM if you would like to help test the new version.

John.
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 10:43 AM   #8
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PM sent, thanks a lot!
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Old January 26th, 2008, 04:14 PM   #9
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Will this application help us with the following?

We come out of our vision mixer using DV and need to be able to keep a master copy and also stream a copy to the web at present I can only keep a master copy or do the streaming canít do both at the same time.

Any ideas would be welcome
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Old January 26th, 2008, 05:11 PM   #10
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look at Markertek online and order their catalog or Laird products.
Laird specializes in firewire products for distribution from simple DA's to firewire switchers.
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Old January 26th, 2008, 05:56 PM   #11
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I'll take a look at that, first see if John is able to provide a software solution
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Old January 26th, 2008, 06:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Spratt View Post
Will this application help us with the following?

We come out of our vision mixer using DV and need to be able to keep a master copy and also stream a copy to the web at present I can only keep a master copy or do the streaming can’t do both at the same time.

Any ideas would be welcome
Yes, it will work. It is exactly what one of our clients needed in a custom solution. The upcoming new version of our DV processor software will include this capability.

I have no problem with you trying it before it is released. Just let me know and I can provide you with the necessary bits and pieces.

John.
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Old January 26th, 2008, 06:28 PM   #13
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Thanks email sent
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Old January 28th, 2008, 06:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Spratt View Post
Will this application help us with the following?

We come out of our vision mixer using DV and need to be able to keep a master copy and also stream a copy to the web at present I can only keep a master copy or do the streaming canít do both at the same time.

Any ideas would be welcome

Have run into one issue, the Vision Mixer I through we was going to be using doesn't have DV out only SDI, anyone know of away of converting to DV without having to buy some hardware to do it.

Our capture device is an Osprey 2000, with SDI and DV in.

Maybe some magic driver that converts the captures source into so Virtual DV Device or is that asking to much.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 06:46 PM   #15
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Hi Graham,

I'm not overly familiar with the Osprey 2000 but from what I have read in creates MPEG2 from incoming analog or SDI video (for the C-Pro).

In principle, the Virtual DV concept can be extended to any video format as long as it is used in a DirectShow environment. The Osprey supports DirectShow and appears to come with a lot of drivers and documentation.

The easiest way to implement the functionality would be to have the Osprey generate MPEG2-TS streams.

I'll contact you privately to ask some more questions about your current process etc.

John.
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