Give me some reasons to switch to Mac at DVinfo.net

Urban Skargren · September 28th, 2007, 09:46 AM

Hi,

I know this subject is well torn, but anyway...
I have until now mostly used PC, but now I have this opportunity to buy a used 2x2 GHz MAc G5 with two 250G hard discs from a friend I know have good hand with his hardware. He says it is good for HDV. And I happened to just get the whole Adobe Suite CS3 for Mac for a good price (I got the wrong package!).

Give me reasons to switch to Mac or if I should stay with PC. Reasons for PC is you save money, and I also teach PC stuff at my current school. I also already have a lot of earlier Premiere PC projects that I want to be able to reedit if needed. Is it possible to reedit PC-made Premiere timelines on Premiere for Mac? Aren't the avi:s different (Win/QT)?

I have used Mac quite a lot as video teacher also, and I think it was good except when you wanted to create Windows Media, but then we used Flip for Mac, a conversion program and solved it.

Some Mac evangelists here? Or are they all on the Mac forums?

I shoot and edit small documentaries, commercials and short films and want to pursue furhter into fiction films.
I know you have to do the decisionmaking yourself, but advice is never bad.

Warren Kawamoto · September 28th, 2007, 01:27 PM

Get the Mac, then load Bootcamp or Parallels to run Windows on it. Then you can have all your Windows applications running on your Mac. It's like having 2 computers in one!

Pete Bauer · September 28th, 2007, 01:49 PM

Urban is quite right. "Platform" is quite weather-worn here and it won't take much platform bashing or evangelizing to just get the whole thread pulled out of public view.

If you have some specific, factual comparisons or contrasts that might help Urban and others to choose a platform such as the file support he asked about, please share them as if you are a scholarly scientist -- even if you aren't.

Of course, TRY BEFORE YOU BUY is the best advice.

John Miller · September 28th, 2007, 01:56 PM

I agree with Pete. Flame-baiting rants don't help and just pollute an otherwise excellent forum.

Urban, I would suggest that it depends on the price. If it is cheaper than anything else you could buy then it's a no-brainer. After all, you can use Bootcamp to allow you to run Windows as well as OS X. So, you can take advantage of the strengths of both (and avoid the weaknesses of both).

Greg Boston · September 28th, 2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John F Miller

I After all, you can use Bootcamp to allow you to run Windows as well as OS X. So, you can take advantage of the strengths of both (and avoid the weaknesses of both).

Just a clarification here. The system Urban mentions is a dual processor G5 and therefore can not utilize Bootcamp to run Windows. Only the Intel based Macs can do that.

Urban just has to determine what software he wants to edit with. That may ultimately make the decision for him.

I have in my home...

One Mac machine running OSX
Two Windows machines running XP
One Windows machine running Vista Business

In all honesty, the Mac gets better than 90 percent of my computer usage. When I'm online, which is a lot, I feel more secure from the Mac OSX side whether it's real or perceived.

-gb-

John Miller · September 28th, 2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

Just a clarification here. The system Urban mentions is a dual processor G5 and therefore can not utilize Bootcamp to run Windows. Only the Intel based Macs can do that.

Oh. I assumed Intel because Urban mentions having Adobe Suite CS3 for Mac (it only supports MacIntel, right?).

If that is the case, then Urban may want to rethink the strategy....

Chris Luker · September 28th, 2007, 04:44 PM

My Mac Pro is the best PC I've ever owned.
And it's a Mac too!

Daniel Ross · September 28th, 2007, 05:33 PM

If you want a reason... sure. I love my Macs. (G5 powerpc tower, and Macbook pro-- intel)

If you do have everything setup already on a PC, and you're just kinda casually switching, seems a bit... expensive.

I don't know anyone who has bought a mac and regretted it. Macs are nice. They're just expensive.

Some people prefer PCs, of course. Personal preference.

However, without even debating the two formats-- since you already have a PC setup (correct?) and you have the chance to have a Mac as well (not a huge financial burden?), then that's great. Having both is good, and you can be familiar with both for any possible jobs you might get and have access to more software (for example, Shake [compositing] is only now available on Macs).
Adobe CS3 suite will be nice as well. I'd suggest looking at FCS, but you already bought that. Should be fine.

If you have any questions ABOUT Macs, feel free to ask too. It's hard to say which someone would just like better in general.

Bob Kerner · September 30th, 2007, 10:44 AM

I own both platforms. I prefer doing visual work on my Mac. It's just easier (for me) since somewhere along the line I learned many shortcuts.

I just purchased a Mac Pro and it's by far the easiest computer to tinker with. Adding drives, cards and RAM is straightforward: open the side, slide it in, done.

All my jacks and ports work. My PCs have what I'd term fake firewire that requires adapters or external power....maybe that's my fault for not investigating before I purchased. But everything I own plugs and plays with my Mac. I can't say that about my PCs.

Bob

Eric Lagerlof · September 30th, 2007, 11:32 AM

Owning and having worked on both Macs and PCs, I enjoy both. The Mac you have WAS a monster, but with the advent of the IntelCore Duo chips, it's a bit long in the tooth now. And Apple is porting over to the intel processors.

I grew up on Premiere and have used FCP 5 quite a bit recently. So far, I still like the Adobe suite better, but who knows, the FCP suite does some nice things...

For HDV, the older Mac dual will do ok, though not with Adobe, cause it's not an intel machine, which, I believe, is a requirement for CS3. And with HDV, as much CPU power as possible is a good thing. The newer intel chips (as opposed to the ones in the Mac you have, which I believe, are called 'power pc' chips), are cheaper and faster. A "quad core" i.e. 2 x intel duo core 2 chips, gateway costs $1,300, (with a monitor, I think). Much faster than your dual proc mac. So part of this, to me, is really a hardware issue, rather than a platform one.

So I wouldn't switch platforms based on the acquisition of an older Mac with non-intel chips. OTOH, if you can get an older version of FCP, or some other programs you work with, and explore using the Mac, it would be a great way to find out if you like the platform and its software.

Daniel Ross · September 30th, 2007, 06:34 PM

Very good point.

I have a G5 Tower PowerPC and now a Macbook pro (intel).

I don't really like working with the tower because it's slipping more and more behind every day not being able to run windows or the newer/better programs.

I think paying more for a Mac with intel is worth it.

Urban Skargren · October 1st, 2007, 08:52 AM

Thanks for all your reflections.
I'm being sucked into the Apple spiral.
It seems clear I need an Intel-based Mac.
I would like to hear your reflections about the portable versus the stationary Macs. Big benefit of portable: it's portable. But what's on the negative side? I would like to be able to edit and burn HDV soon.

Daniel Ross · October 1st, 2007, 03:49 PM

Macbooks are fine, but the graphics cards don't fully support a few features in FCP and Motion/Color are not supported.

Macbook pros have better graphics cards and fully support FCS.

I have a 2.33ghz core 2 duo 15.4" 2GB RAM macbook pro, and it's great.

For the same price you can get a tower that is more powerful. Quite true. But you also do need to purchase a monitor. ...and it's not portable.

The macbook is a very solid computer.

I really dislike the 5400 rpm hard drive. This stalls out with some files. (I'm not currently editing HD, so I can only tell you about SD performance.) DV SD is fine and plays without trouble. Only about 3 seconds of uncompressed SD will run without it stalling out. The drive just can't keep up.

That's my only complaint, though.

As is, the prices for Macbook pros and Mac pros (the towers) are about the same. Mac pros, for the same, are more/faster, though.

Personally, I really like having a strong mobile computer. I can go somewhere and record right to the hard drive, or edit on a trip, edit on set, etc.

Having a desktop workstation does have one advantage-- concentration. It's convenient to be able to sit on your couch with a laptop, but not very productive. Having a desktop station for editing and sitting at the desk will help you concentrate, perhaps.

I've used my macbook "as a desktop", by connecting a second monitor, hard drives, networking, etc. It works well. But it doesn't completely fit the illusion, I must say. Still does feel like a laptop, if that matters to you.
(Perhaps better if you set it up with a mouse and keyboard.)

Urban Skargren · October 1st, 2007, 11:52 PM

Thanks, Daniel. I suppose you can spread out the desktop on the two monitors with the macbook pro?
Do the Macbook Pro's support raid?
Is the GPU in the Macbook Pro as powerful as in the Mac Pro standard version?

Daniel Ross · October 2nd, 2007, 12:28 AM

You can just check the numbers. No, macbook pros are somewhat less powerful than mac pros but they're plenty capable.
Sure. Using an extra monitor can spread out well.

I'm not sure about RAID, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't. It's not anything special/limited. Just a computer.

September 28th, 2007, 09:46 AM	#1
Urban Skargren Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Medellin, Colombia Posts: 225	Give me some reasons to switch to Mac Hi, I know this subject is well torn, but anyway... I have until now mostly used PC, but now I have this opportunity to buy a used 2x2 GHz MAc G5 with two 250G hard discs from a friend I know have good hand with his hardware. He says it is good for HDV. And I happened to just get the whole Adobe Suite CS3 for Mac for a good price (I got the wrong package!). Give me reasons to switch to Mac or if I should stay with PC. Reasons for PC is you save money, and I also teach PC stuff at my current school. I also already have a lot of earlier Premiere PC projects that I want to be able to reedit if needed. Is it possible to reedit PC-made Premiere timelines on Premiere for Mac? Aren't the avi:s different (Win/QT)? I have used Mac quite a lot as video teacher also, and I think it was good except when you wanted to create Windows Media, but then we used Flip for Mac, a conversion program and solved it. Some Mac evangelists here? Or are they all on the Mac forums? I shoot and edit small documentaries, commercials and short films and want to pursue furhter into fiction films. I know you have to do the decisionmaking yourself, but advice is never bad.

September 28th, 2007, 01:49 PM	#3
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Urban is quite right. "Platform" is quite weather-worn here and it won't take much platform bashing or evangelizing to just get the whole thread pulled out of public view. If you have some specific, factual comparisons or contrasts that might help Urban and others to choose a platform such as the file support he asked about, please share them as if you are a scholarly scientist -- even if you aren't. Of course, TRY BEFORE YOU BUY is the best advice. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

September 28th, 2007, 01:27 PM	#2
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Get the Mac, then load Bootcamp or Parallels to run Windows on it. Then you can have all your Windows applications running on your Mac. It's like having 2 computers in one!

September 28th, 2007, 01:56 PM	#4
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	I agree with Pete. Flame-baiting rants don't help and just pollute an otherwise excellent forum. Urban, I would suggest that it depends on the price. If it is cheaper than anything else you could buy then it's a no-brainer. After all, you can use Bootcamp to allow you to run Windows as well as OS X. So, you can take advantage of the strengths of both (and avoid the weaknesses of both).

September 28th, 2007, 04:44 PM	#7
Chris Luker Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Woods Cross, Utah Posts: 310	My Mac Pro is the best PC I've ever owned. And it's a Mac too!

September 28th, 2007, 05:33 PM	#8
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	If you want a reason... sure. I love my Macs. (G5 powerpc tower, and Macbook pro-- intel) If you do have everything setup already on a PC, and you're just kinda casually switching, seems a bit... expensive. I don't know anyone who has bought a mac and regretted it. Macs are nice. They're just expensive. Some people prefer PCs, of course. Personal preference. However, without even debating the two formats-- since you already have a PC setup (correct?) and you have the chance to have a Mac as well (not a huge financial burden?), then that's great. Having both is good, and you can be familiar with both for any possible jobs you might get and have access to more software (for example, Shake [compositing] is only now available on Macs). Adobe CS3 suite will be nice as well. I'd suggest looking at FCS, but you already bought that. Should be fine. If you have any questions ABOUT Macs, feel free to ask too. It's hard to say which someone would just like better in general.

September 30th, 2007, 10:44 AM	#9
Bob Kerner Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York Posts: 388	I own both platforms. I prefer doing visual work on my Mac. It's just easier (for me) since somewhere along the line I learned many shortcuts. I just purchased a Mac Pro and it's by far the easiest computer to tinker with. Adding drives, cards and RAM is straightforward: open the side, slide it in, done. All my jacks and ports work. My PCs have what I'd term fake firewire that requires adapters or external power....maybe that's my fault for not investigating before I purchased. But everything I own plugs and plays with my Mac. I can't say that about my PCs. Bob

September 30th, 2007, 11:32 AM	#10
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	Owning and having worked on both Macs and PCs, I enjoy both. The Mac you have WAS a monster, but with the advent of the IntelCore Duo chips, it's a bit long in the tooth now. And Apple is porting over to the intel processors. I grew up on Premiere and have used FCP 5 quite a bit recently. So far, I still like the Adobe suite better, but who knows, the FCP suite does some nice things... For HDV, the older Mac dual will do ok, though not with Adobe, cause it's not an intel machine, which, I believe, is a requirement for CS3. And with HDV, as much CPU power as possible is a good thing. The newer intel chips (as opposed to the ones in the Mac you have, which I believe, are called 'power pc' chips), are cheaper and faster. A "quad core" i.e. 2 x intel duo core 2 chips, gateway costs $1,300, (with a monitor, I think). Much faster than your dual proc mac. So part of this, to me, is really a hardware issue, rather than a platform one. So I wouldn't switch platforms based on the acquisition of an older Mac with non-intel chips. OTOH, if you can get an older version of FCP, or some other programs you work with, and explore using the Mac, it would be a great way to find out if you like the platform and its software.

September 30th, 2007, 06:34 PM	#11
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	Very good point. I have a G5 Tower PowerPC and now a Macbook pro (intel). I don't really like working with the tower because it's slipping more and more behind every day not being able to run windows or the newer/better programs. I think paying more for a Mac with intel is worth it.

October 1st, 2007, 08:52 AM	#12
Urban Skargren Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Medellin, Colombia Posts: 225	Thanks for all your reflections. I'm being sucked into the Apple spiral. It seems clear I need an Intel-based Mac. I would like to hear your reflections about the portable versus the stationary Macs. Big benefit of portable: it's portable. But what's on the negative side? I would like to be able to edit and burn HDV soon.

October 1st, 2007, 03:49 PM	#13
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	Macbooks are fine, but the graphics cards don't fully support a few features in FCP and Motion/Color are not supported. Macbook pros have better graphics cards and fully support FCS. I have a 2.33ghz core 2 duo 15.4" 2GB RAM macbook pro, and it's great. For the same price you can get a tower that is more powerful. Quite true. But you also do need to purchase a monitor. ...and it's not portable. The macbook is a very solid computer. I really dislike the 5400 rpm hard drive. This stalls out with some files. (I'm not currently editing HD, so I can only tell you about SD performance.) DV SD is fine and plays without trouble. Only about 3 seconds of uncompressed SD will run without it stalling out. The drive just can't keep up. That's my only complaint, though. As is, the prices for Macbook pros and Mac pros (the towers) are about the same. Mac pros, for the same, are more/faster, though. Personally, I really like having a strong mobile computer. I can go somewhere and record right to the hard drive, or edit on a trip, edit on set, etc. Having a desktop workstation does have one advantage-- concentration. It's convenient to be able to sit on your couch with a laptop, but not very productive. Having a desktop station for editing and sitting at the desk will help you concentrate, perhaps. I've used my macbook "as a desktop", by connecting a second monitor, hard drives, networking, etc. It works well. But it doesn't completely fit the illusion, I must say. Still does feel like a laptop, if that matters to you. (Perhaps better if you set it up with a mouse and keyboard.)

October 1st, 2007, 11:52 PM	#14
Urban Skargren Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Medellin, Colombia Posts: 225	Thanks, Daniel. I suppose you can spread out the desktop on the two monitors with the macbook pro? Do the Macbook Pro's support raid? Is the GPU in the Macbook Pro as powerful as in the Mac Pro standard version?

October 2nd, 2007, 12:28 AM	#15
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	You can just check the numbers. No, macbook pros are somewhat less powerful than mac pros but they're plenty capable. Sure. Using an extra monitor can spread out well. I'm not sure about RAID, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't. It's not anything special/limited. Just a computer.