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Old June 22nd, 2003, 10:04 AM   #16
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It was me who got fined for the fake guns...

But umm they were real guns... just not in working order, was not a fun day to say the least.

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Old June 22nd, 2003, 12:28 PM   #17
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So far as carrying, It really depends on the juristiction. In places like Arizona where it's legal to carry a side arm, it's no sweat. In Canada or Britain no one is allowed to carry at all and it's instant Tactical Team if a handgun or restricted weapon is spotted. It's illegal to carry a reproduction of one as well.
In Barrie, Ontario someone was thought to have a hand gun and they responded by bringing in the Tactical Team and had my street sealed off for hours. It's really not a good idea, in fact post 9-11 it's not a good idea anywhere, but that's just my opinion.

I used to shoot match rifle and one of my rifles was a tad futuristic looking. Some one thought it was a fully automatic assault rifle and that was a problem.

So far as pointing anything or swinging any toy or real gun around, Mike is right on. Ask for permission, notify police , post the area and have tight controls.

People that use a real weapon follow a very strict safety protocol.

Never carry a loaded weapon unless you intend to use it.

Never point a weapon unless you intend to shoot.

A police officer seeing anyone with anything resembling a weapon , with a closed action, a finger on the trigger and pointing at someone is liable to shoot with justification. This is the post 9 / 11 world we live in and it's getting worse.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 12:34 PM   #18
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And always treat any firearm as if it were loaded... even when you know it isn't. Assume it's loaded all the time... even when you know it isn't. Always to check to see that it's not loaded... even when you know it isn't.

And I think the lesson of this thread is to always coordinate with local authorities whenever your production calls for a firearm, fake or real, out in public.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 01:59 PM   #19
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I guess the worse part is the pointing of the weapon and pretense of shooting, breaks every rule in the book. Unless this is critical,(and i doubt it is) I just wouldn't attempt this one, especially with your intimate relationship with the Canton Police.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 04:18 PM   #20
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In Canada it is illegal to carry a firearm openly (or concealed) for that matter. Either it is secured in your residence or car as you are on the way to the range or into the wilderness. I believe technically if you are going to have firearms in a film shoot, you have to hire a licensed weaponsmaster, especially when firearms are being discharged (blanks).

As for reproductions, sales of Airsoft (realistic plastic BB firing) guns became more tightly regulated after September 11th. Replicas shipped after that time came with red plastic tips to identify them as 'toys'.

When I did my music video shoot last year I purchased two replicas from an Airsoft player at a local warehouse where a game was in session. When I arrived, police were busting someone for tresspassing outside the warehouse as I parked. We actually conducted the deal within sight of the police and their dogs as they were questioning their suspect. This was just outside the warehouse where, if you bothered to look in through the window, you could see several 'heavily armed' guys in camo attacking each other with replicas of assault rifles and submachineguns. Very surreal. But obviously the police knew this place existed and tolerated it because it was fairly isolated from public view.

Even if the police are fairly sure they are arriving at a filming scene, they may bust you because they were rousted out of their regular routine and are pissed off about filing a report.

There have been two well-known instances in Vancouver where police have shot and killed people when they thought they were being threatened with a weapon. In one instance they were serving a warrant on a known felon when he answered the door with a TV remote in his hand. They shot him instantly. In the second instance, they had received a narcotics tip and entered a family home. In the basement they found a boy who was target shooting with a pellet gun and under cloudy circumstances fatally shot him.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 05:08 PM   #21
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Hey Keith- Just completely off topic... Did you once say you did Director, and 3D games?
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 06:26 PM   #22
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In one instance they were serving a warrant on a known felon when he answered the door with a TV remote in his hand. They shot him instantly.
Was that the kid in North Vancouver a few years ago? If that was the one, the kid didn't have a record, as I recall, and the police had the wrong address. I believe it's in the courts still. The family is going after legal compensation as well as a wrongful death thing. It was on the news quite a bit.

Alex, have you thought of getting a job at Hoover? I noticed that your city houses the head office. They make mighty fine vacuum cleaners.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 07:54 PM   #23
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Let's not freak out, man. I run an airsoft event with 100 players and no problems. Hunters carry guns everywhere and gun shops abound. These stories you hear are freak happenings.

Just notify the local police station. Ask them if there would be any problem. Bring the gun with you (in an enclosed case, of course). Don't bring it in until you explain what you want to do.

Don't make a big hairy deal out of it. When you're getting ready to shoot, don't cover it up or hide it in any way. Be obvious. If you think it'll only be a few minutes, the cops might even send a car over to sit with you till your done.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 07:59 PM   #24
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About treating a "weapon" as if its loaded all the time, I wouldn't classify this BB gun as a "weapon", seriously. I can shoot myself in the leg like 20 times repeatedly with it, and it pretty much just leaves some bruses and stings. It doesn't even use c02 or "green gas", its just spring loaded.

Frank, hoover employs a lot of people around here, infact my grandma is retired from there after working there for pretty much of her life. The main place is in North Canton, and we go past it on a regular basis, I don't think I could get a job there though, lol.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 08:19 PM   #25
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Oh yeah, the other thing I wanted to ask you guys, is...

Is a school playground/park private property?

Thats where we are shooting this, and I don't know if school grounds is "private property" or not....


I'm so f'n paranoid about shooting this now. I just keep having these images of a cop "rollin up in there" and us (or our parents) getting fined some big time money or something.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 09:56 PM   #26
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<<<-- Originally posted by Keith Forman : Hey Keith- Just completely off topic... Did you once say you did Director, and 3D games? -->>>

Director, yes. A long time ago. I haven't touched it since v4 because I immediately went into 3D after my brush with authoring. I modelled 3D for games and then for TV and film. Now I'm basically a generalist. If you want to know more you can email me.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 10:03 PM   #27
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<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : Let's not freak out, man. I run an airsoft event with 100 players and no problems. Hunters carry guns everywhere and gun shops abound. These stories you hear are freak happenings. -->>>

Every city is different with different attitudes of law enforcement. In Missouri people may carry around firearms openly but not where I live. I brought up the two incidents that I can remember that ended in fatalities. But that is not to say you or I would appreciate very much being arrested (if only temporarily) and having our EQ impounded and shoot suspended because a passerby freaked out and dialed 911. Never underestimate how stupid people can be. At the same time, film locations are not always obvious. I walked onto a Stargate:SG1 set once after wondering why the people standing in the open park seemed a bit 'off'. Well, it turns out I walked onto another planet and no PA had intercepted me in time.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 10:05 PM   #28
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I'm not sure if I could think of a worse place to film a short with guns than the school yard! Being involved in soccer for a number of years (25!), we needed permission from the school and school system to use their fields for practice. You might get away with it, but I wouldn't want my parents reading in the paper the next day that their son was arrested for bringing a weapon on school grounds! You might be your own 'movie of the week'.

I think if you put up signs in a public park and shot early in the morning - or better yet, find a back yard of one of your friends where there are trees in the background so it doesn't look like a backyard, you'll be in better shape.

It took me months to find the right location for my nine minute short (that was turned down for every festival entered!). Sometimes it falls into place, and other times . . . !

Good luck. I would seriously not bring a gun (bb, water pistol, or anything!) onto school grounds.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 10:07 PM   #29
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<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Knappenberger :
Is a school playground/park private property?-->>>

It is municipal property. Technically, you need permission from the school board to shoot on there.
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Old June 22nd, 2003, 10:21 PM   #30
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<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Knappenberger : About treating a "weapon" as if its loaded all the time, I wouldn't classify this BB gun as a "weapon", seriously. I can shoot myself in the leg like 20 times repeatedly with it, and it pretty much just leaves some bruses and stings. It doesn't even use c02 or "green gas", its just spring loaded. -->>>

I've been shot by a BB .. in the ass :)

Well, Alex, the thing is a cop doesn't have time to see whether it's a replica or not. He just sees the gun shape and acts accordingly. If one shows up, do what he says.

Also, you have to be careful about what you say too as you are discussing your shoot. If someone overhears you saying: "oh, and remember to bring the replica GUNS to the school tonight" some people may only hear GUNS and decide to do their civic duty.
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