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Old February 22nd, 2008, 11:49 PM   #1
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Need Buying Advice

Hello all. Just found and joined this little group and have found more info in a week than I could have imagined. What brought me here is that I'm looking at starting a business involving youth sports - basically video taping services to a host of people. What I'm asking for is not whether or not it's a viable business. What I'd like is your advice on equipment. Basically I'm looking at all sports, soccer, basketball, football, volleyball, swimming, you get the idea. Here's what I'm thinking of in terms of equipment and what I'd very much appreciate is your advice on all of it, do I need it, should I opt for something else, etc.

What I'm thinking of is the following -

Camera - Canon XL H1
Jib - Jonyjib Jr. 15 ft. (soccer for instance will be from the sidelines and I need to get above the crowd in order to be able to see the play develop).
A new editing platform - was thinking MAC but wonder what the experts here think. MAC or Windows. I've got experience in iMovie and Vegas. Any special cards I should be thinking about?
Some sort of tapeless capture device (just discovered this so need to look into it more and welcome suggestions).

The budget available is roughly $60,000 so I want to make sure I start of right and with two rigs.

We've recently bought an HV20 and I've been messing around with that but want something for the business that will be able to handle the growth and expansion if this works. It's all in the planning stages at this point.

As I said I'm really new to all of this and would really appreciate any advice either way on any of what I'm thinking and things I'm missing.

Thanks in advance.

Henry
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 02:40 AM   #2
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For sports you might want to consider the JVC HD200U or HD250U, and shooting 60p.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #3
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Robert,

Thanks for the reply.

So why the JVC over the Cannon? Just getting into this I'm looking for all the info I can get.

Thanks in advance.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 11:51 PM   #4
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Because of the 60 progressive frames per second instead of 30 interlaced. Much sharper image with fast moving objects.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 09:27 AM   #5
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#1 I'd definitely go with one of the Sony HDV camcorders. The JVC is wonderful, but more for Doc's or indie movies. The Sony is less expensive, a proven workhorse, and has much better low light capability. It's perfect for what you want to do. So unless you intend to show the final product on 35mm...Go with a Sony.

#2 Mac or PC is a toss up. Honestly for what you are doing, you be all right either way. MAC machines are awesome... I've never had one break down on me yet. Problem with MAC is that there's a ton if software for the PC. If you go the PC route you'll save a ton of money. I know people are AVID junkies, but, for what you are doing I'd go with VEGAS. It's got the lowest learning curve and has awesome effects built right into the program.

Which ever route you take GOOD LUCK!
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Old March 8th, 2008, 01:20 PM   #6
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Shooting 60p lets you capture very crisp, fluid motion. You wouldn't shoot 60p to transfer to film (you would shoot 24p for that).
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Old March 8th, 2008, 01:45 PM   #7
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This just occurred to me. With your budget, a couple Sony PMW-EX1s could work VERY well for you. The PMW-EX1s can shoot 720/60p (at 35mbps even), and the quality should be simply stunning.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 01:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Wright View Post
Shooting 60p lets you capture very crisp, fluid motion. You wouldn't shoot 60p to transfer to film (you would shoot 24p for that).
Maybe I wasn't very clear. I know 60p wouldn't be used for film. The point I am trying to make is that the Sony would be a better camera for his needs. The JVC is an awesome camera for shooting to transfer to film IMHO.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 02:34 PM   #9
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I just can't think of a reason that Sony HDV cameras would work better for shooting sports.

Most sports involve considerable motion, and 60p is far more ideal for capturing that, than 60i, 30p or 24p.

Most organized sporting events are reasonably well lit, so I doubt that a bit better low light performance from some of the Sony HDV cameras (not all of them perform well in low light) would really make a big difference, compared to the JVCs. Certainly none of the Sony (or any other brand) HDV cameras would hold a candle to a PMW-EX1, in low light.

He's talking about a 60k budget for equipment, so the HD200U, HD250U (not the HD110U) or even PMW-EX1, would seem reasonable, cost-wise.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:10 PM   #10
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xl-h1 with a flash recorder (if they ever get released http://convergent-design.com/) would work well for long events. 4:2:2 with DV back up. might have some sound issues to work around. don't know if there is a preset for an EX-1 look yet.

EX-1 with a lap top to dump media on. extra cards, 4:2, good low light, 60p. ackward to hand hold but ok for your jib.

if you have two rigs do both options and find what suits you best, you lucky dog.

tito
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Old March 8th, 2008, 06:38 PM   #11
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Robert, I love the JVC. It's just that the Sony can go places that I wouldn't dare take my JVC. For me it's much easier for run & gun. For cool X game type shots. Having dirt bikes jump over you, etc. I'm not arguing your advice at all. Just for my personal preference the sony is the ultimate road warrior.
If I had a controlled atmosphere the JVC all the way.
I'm trying to think of a good example... To me it's like you have a Hummer(JVC) and a Toyota(Sony). Now a hummer is a $60,000 car with every bell and whislte. Proven to be roadworthy under unbelievable conditions. But if I was going off roading with my friends. The hummer would be waxed and shiny in my garage as I thrashed my little 1990, $3000 used Toyota.
Now remember I am VERY budget conscious.
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Old March 13th, 2008, 10:25 PM   #12
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Thanks all. I appreciate the info and I think I understand the differences and the points you're all making. If this helps the camera will be in somewhat of a controlled environment as in a soccer game. Up on the jib panning left, right, up, and down. The only issue on occasion will be wind and rain on the very rare occasion. I also get the 60p argument. I tried filming a scrimmage with my Canon HV20 on 24 and it was almost unwatchable. Very jittery.
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Old March 13th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Henry Lokay View Post
Up on the jib panning left, right, up, and down. The only issue on occasion will be wind and rain on the very rare occasion.
Now I may have nightmares about $10k cameras being hit by lightening.

:)
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Old April 1st, 2008, 06:18 PM   #14
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OK, so we're getting ready to pull the trigger on this thing and have been doing the research all this time, and not just on the cameras. Anyway, after continued digging I have to ask a question of those of you who are the proponents of the Sony. With all the issues with this camera - the back focus, the vignetting, some of the issues with AWB and colors, expecially black, not coming out as they should, would you still recommened dumping $7000 into something that obviously has some serious issues. I know not all the cameras come out with problems but ....I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. Once this is off the ground having to send cameras in for repair isn't really realistic, especially knowing of the issues up front.

Then again, maybe I'm over thinking this whole thing but thanks for the help in advance
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Old April 1st, 2008, 10:48 PM   #15
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Henry,

You're overdoing your research. I don't blame you for it, I'm sort of the same, a lot of reading/researching before writing the check, and that's basically the best practice.

You know, it's like with cars, no matter what you buy, you will, at some point, think: I should have gotten that other one... All cameras have strong points and weaknesses.

With your budget I would quit looking in the prosumer area and move up to real professional, ENG cameras. I would spend about 60-70% of that budget on two cameras - aquisition is your first and most important step. You can refine your workflow later, but it's hard to replace cameras once you spent a few tens of thousands on them...

In my opinion...
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