Clapper board angled use - why? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Open DV Discussion
For topics which don't fit into any of the other categories.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 19th, 2008, 08:59 AM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Clapper board angled use - why?

I've noticed that whenever I see a clapperboad being used they seem to turn it at an angle. Perfect example in the Dr Who Confidential Trailer below for tonight's Ood episode! (about 35 second in.)

Is there any technical reason why this is done?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/videos/
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2008, 09:10 AM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,108
Images: 1
I believe it is held at an angle that allows it to be read by all cameras in a multi-camera shoot. Sort of like angling your LCD screen away from yourself such that others can see it with you.

-gb-
Greg Boston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2008, 09:11 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Thanks, and thanks for the speedy reply!
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2008, 02:00 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,750
Sometimes you want to angle it so that glare from lights doesn't make it hard to read.
Glenn Chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2008, 08:58 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida
Posts: 2,614
Glare is my reason as most new boards are white w/dry erase now, not black with chalk and the lighting come from behind.

Mike
__________________
Chapter one, line one. The BH.
Mike Teutsch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2008, 05:01 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand
Posts: 117
It stops glare and reflections.
Ben Ruffell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2008, 01:03 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wynnewood, PA
Posts: 49
Is there a reason why they sometimes do not clap the sticks "silent sticks" or if the use it upside down or on a 90 deg angle?

Chris
Christopher Feder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2008, 01:47 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Actually, if you view the Dr Who Confidential clip I linked in the OP it was clapped at 45 degrees from horizontal...which whilst I understand the many and swift responses to my original question (multi-camera/glare etc.), the reasoning for this angle still kind of puzzles me a little.
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2008, 02:39 PM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Feder View Post
Is there a reason why they sometimes do not clap the sticks "silent sticks" or if the use it upside down or on a 90 deg angle?

Chris
A slate upside down indicates that the slate information on it relates to the PREVIOUS scene (end slate or tail slate) rather than the coming scene. It's commonly used if you roll another take without taking the time for sticks.

I never use silent sticks or "90 degree" sticks so I can't help you there.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2008, 03:11 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida
Posts: 2,614
The reason to actually clap the sticks or the board was when the sound was recorded on a separate device than the film or video. You used the visual of the sticks coming together and the sound of them coming together to sinc them for editing.

Most now do not actually bang them together because most of use use our cameras to record the sound too. It can be very annoying to the actors as it is in their face much of the time, especially on close-ups.

We start shooting our movie next week and for the first time I/we are going to actually bang them together as we are shooting on a RED One and recording the sound to a DAT.

I have rocked the slate back and forth, like tic-toc, and this indicated to me that I was recording background noise only and not worried about the video.

Mike
__________________
Chapter one, line one. The BH.
Mike Teutsch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23rd, 2008, 09:19 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 431
The Handbook On Slate Technique...

Where can I find all of this info (e.g. "upside down slate", "Rocking Slate"). Is there a good free site for film terminology and modus operandi?
__________________
"Get Er Done!!!"
G. Lee Gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23rd, 2008, 10:15 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 858
The Filmmaker's Handbook by Steven Ascher is a great resource that might help you out.
Oren Arieli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23rd, 2008, 09:16 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 431
Thanks, do you know any FREE resources?
__________________
"Get Er Done!!!"
G. Lee Gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2008, 01:18 PM   #14
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,781
Can't get those clips to play but there is no reason to hold the slate at a 45 degree angle rotationally. It should be either straight or 180 degrees upside down for a tail slate. Some AC's will try to get cute with it and perhaps hold it rakishly because they are bored but that's only making the assistant editor's job harder...

The proper way to tail slate is to first roll a head ID, which is a sticks-closed slate. For an MOS (silent) shot, MOS would be added to the slate and possibly pointed to by the AC but for a regular head ID, nothing is changed from a standard head slate. When sound is rolled the AC will call out "tail sticks (on B)" if for instance the A camera is rolling and slating first and the B camera will roll later in the scene. After cut is called, the AC will run in announcing "tail sticks", hold the slate in front of the camera with the sticks open, hit the sticks and then turn the slate upside-down to visually indicate that it is a tail slate. The reason for not putting it in frame upside-down to begin with is that the editor will have to read it upside down if this is the case. It is also possible to hit the sticks upside down and then turn the slate right side up, but if you are using a time code slate, this again makes the editor's job harder. Reasons for tail slating are if you have to take a late roll on one camera or the head slate was improperly done; also if the opening composition is very specific and the lens or geographic position makes it difficult or impossible to get a slate at the head, or if up on a crane where the slate on the ground would be too small to see.

Never seen a rocking slate in use. Generally for a video shoot I would close down the lens, obviously misframe or go to bars for an audio-only recording.

Other slate terminology: If the sticks are hit before the camera comes up to speed (but sound is already rolling), "second sticks" will be called for. If those are botched, "third sticks" will be next (and yes, I have actually experienced this and I think even fourth sticks on one bizarre instance). "Quick sticks" are called for if there is a concern that the scene may come close to rolling out, so everyone is aware that once speed is called, the slate and action calls should come quickly. "Big sticks" are oversized clappers (up to 3 feet long) that are used for shots in which the AC cannot get close to the camera and/or the lens is exceptionally wide, so that they can be seen.

Many other pearls of wisdom about slating--the basic rule is that you hold the slate steady while the clapper is closing, not have it in motion up and away so that the distinction of the sync frame is not blurred. The AC should be familiar with the focal length of the shot so that they will know how far to hold the frame--with the 35mm format, the rule of thumb is to divide the focal length by 10, so for a 100mm shot they will stand 10 feet away with the slate. With smaller formats such as 1/3" the formula will get a bit clunky. If two cameras are in use, the A camera will slate first and then the AC should walk the slate towards the camera to fill the frame so that the B slate, if also visible in the shot, is now obscured to avoid confusion. If the set is dark and the slate is not backlit, the AC should have a flashlight to illuminate the slate so that it is legible--the venerable maglite has been replaced by Xenon or LED lights that are much brighter and they hold them out to the side at arms length and an oblique angle to prevent hotspots and even illumination. Also as mentioned in earlier posts, if there is reflection on the face of the slate, the operator should inform the AC so that they can tilt it to clear the reflection.
__________________
Charles Papert
www.charlespapert.com
Charles Papert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,835
Charles, thanks for the insightful and interesting reply.

Just checked my original post at top of this thread and the BBC video clips still play just fine for me....maybe it's a bit like the BBCi Player in that it won't allow non-UK IP addresses to play it?? (I really don't know!)

No matter. Thanks again!
__________________
Andy K Wilkinson - http://www.shootingimage.co.uk
Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production
Andy Wilkinson is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:33 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network