Super8 film to DV at DVinfo.net

Mike Calla · September 25th, 2003, 01:38 PM

Before I go out and spend some cash on tests I’d like to find out if anyone has had Super8 film transferred to a digital format? This topic has been covered before but only for archiving family movies. I would be doing this for a commercial production and wondering how the conversion stands up. ie: color saturation, contrast ratio, basic tech info. I live in Toronto, Canada, and we have a reputable Super8 transfer house, but I’d like to here how your transfers have gone before I commit.

MikeC

Jeff Donald · September 25th, 2003, 01:53 PM

I've had clients go to Super 8mm and I was not impressed. If you can at all afford it, go to at least 16mm. Super 8mm looked very grainy. The client was not happy and wished he had spent the additional to go to 16mm. Most transfer houses should have samples for you to view. Maybe my client used a cheaper transfer house.

Daniel Kautz · September 25th, 2003, 09:30 PM

Ummm... Jeff

I was just browsing through and read this thread. I believe you got Mike's question backwards. <g> He's asking about transfering Super8 film TO Digital Video.

Regards,

Dan Kautz

David Hurdon · September 26th, 2003, 07:13 AM

Mike, I'm sorry to jump in without an answer but I'm in Toronto too and need some film to gigital transfers myself. Would you mind sharing the name of the house you know locally?

David Hurdon

Mike Calla · September 26th, 2003, 08:20 AM

Sure David it's

Exclusive Film and Video

http://www.exclusivefilm.net
Local: 416 598-2700
Fax: 416 598-0766
Toll Free: 1-888-497-9922
101-F1 Niagara St.

They work mostly in super8 but I think they also do some blow ups to 16 and 35mm.

Glad I could help
MikeC

Alex Taylor · September 26th, 2003, 01:21 PM

I've seen dozens of Super8 -> DV transfers and they look great. We just project them on to a screen and set up a DV camera beside the projector set to 1/30. It looks just as good as the projection.

Mike Calla · September 26th, 2003, 01:33 PM

Thanks Alex
I realise that it can be done with great results but I'm hoping that transferring via a telecine will yield even greater results. However I'm taking your word on it and I'm borrowing my parent’s projector/screen and a couple reels to see what kind of results I get. I’ve gotten some good info already in the forum archives with respect to adjusting projecting speeds to cope with my cameras frame rate/interlacing issues. We'll see.

MikeC

Alex Taylor · September 26th, 2003, 01:46 PM

Good luck Mike! Let us know how it goes.

If you want a few examples of this method, check out this site: (http://www.giftsfilms.com/onscreen/c...gory_code=SUP8). All those films were done in Super8, transferred to DV and edited digitally. May I recommend Romanticide and Intemperance :)

Don Donatello · September 27th, 2003, 12:03 AM

i've shot super 8 for sections of commercials and transferred on ranks. kodachrome 40, ektachrome160 , tri x B&W .
i have not shot any of the super 8 negative stock

if you are trying to cut cost by shooting super 8 hoping for it to look like 16/35mm .. IMO you will not be satisfied.

however if you are looking for a film look that has a bit of grain, a little soft or to look different then your 16/35/video it might please you.

Mike Calla · September 27th, 2003, 08:25 AM

Don
You’re right, I wouldn’t be shooting Super8 instead of DV-only to supplement it within a TV spot. Right now we are looking to shoot in PlusX Reversal B/W, hoping that this slower speed film will minimize graininess. The camera we are looking at renting has the ability to shoot NTSC drop frame. I imagine this would be the best way of negating any pull-down issues during transfer? In fact I have to make sure the lab can transfer in the frame I choose to film in. Another thing you mentioned - “negative stock”. I did some searching and found out Kodak has now started to sell Vision 200T Super8 stock. A few labs in Toronto will process the stock but will not make working prints. Do have any idea which lab can do this in the US or Can?

…Alex
I viewed many films on that page including your suggestions and although I found the content quite interesting (in fact I had already seen one entry on ZEDtv here in TO), I found the quality to be very poor. Right now I will attribute this to Real Player and streaming media (I dread web media), but it did make me stop in tracks briefly. My only solace was viewing my parents old Super8 reels. I haven’t seen a projected print in a long time and forgot how good it could look. The way it handled light with a velvet glove, how good the colour saturation was and to my surprise how detailed the images were. And these films were 30 years old. I can already image how good I can make it this stuff look in a controlled environment with a manual camera and real lighting fixtures. I can’t wait to shoot some test reels and see how they turn out.

MikeC

Dean Sensui · September 27th, 2003, 12:12 PM

Mike...

Take a look at this website:

http://www.moviestuff.tv/

He sells film transfer equipment and he also does film transfers as a service. Of interest is one that will step thru frames at a relatively slow rate. There's a switch that has Premiere grab a frame into the computer's hard drive. This eliminates sync problems and gets a very nice transfer.

He also offers test transfers if you're interested in seeing the quality level.

Hope this helps,
Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

Don Donatello · September 28th, 2003, 02:37 PM

pro 8 offers ASA 50, 100, 200, 250, 320, 500, 800 negavtive stocks and they transfer on RANK to mini DV and other formats.

http://www.pro8mm.com/us/film_frm.htm

i do not know anyone that workprints it .. it is mostly used to either transfer direct to tape or blow up to 16/35 or data files made ...

negative requires EXTREME care as any dust will show up as WHITE and it scratches easy ...avoid handling it ..

reversal films are very forgiving on dust and handling it ..

if you shoot film at 24fps and transfer to NTSC tape PULL down will be added ... up to you if you want them to transfer using drop frame or non drop TC - there is no difference to frames or amount of frames - it all ends up on NTSC tape at 29.97 ...only difference is how it is counted.

i was going to post a clip of super 8 and 16 mm but after i made a 512K stream you can't see the difference between them . so i'm not posting it ....

Richard Alvarez · September 28th, 2003, 03:59 PM

If you are trying a "poor man's telecine" - that is, shooting off of a screen... it will work best if the super 8 was shot at 18 frames a second - not 24. The reason is that you will speed up the projector to twenty frames, the three-bladed shutter in the projector will create 60 images a second... and you have sync.

With 24 frames per second, you are better off going through a proper pulldown. Moviestuff is good, so is super8sound in Burbank.

September 25th, 2003, 01:38 PM	#1
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Super8 film to DV Before I go out and spend some cash on tests I’d like to find out if anyone has had Super8 film transferred to a digital format? This topic has been covered before but only for archiving family movies. I would be doing this for a commercial production and wondering how the conversion stands up. ie: color saturation, contrast ratio, basic tech info. I live in Toronto, Canada, and we have a reputable Super8 transfer house, but I’d like to here how your transfers have gone before I commit. MikeC __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

September 25th, 2003, 01:53 PM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	I've had clients go to Super 8mm and I was not impressed. If you can at all afford it, go to at least 16mm. Super 8mm looked very grainy. The client was not happy and wished he had spent the additional to go to 16mm. Most transfer houses should have samples for you to view. Maybe my client used a cheaper transfer house. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 25th, 2003, 09:30 PM	#3
Daniel Kautz New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Frisco, Texas Posts: 22	Ummm... Jeff I was just browsing through and read this thread. I believe you got Mike's question backwards. <g> He's asking about transfering Super8 film TO Digital Video. Regards, Dan Kautz __________________ Good Enough Is'nt

September 26th, 2003, 07:13 AM	#4
David Hurdon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 484	Mike, I'm sorry to jump in without an answer but I'm in Toronto too and need some film to gigital transfers myself. Would you mind sharing the name of the house you know locally? David Hurdon __________________ Site:http://www.faceliftmarketing.ca Blog:http://www.websitevideo.blogspot.com

September 26th, 2003, 08:20 AM	#5
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Sure David it's Exclusive Film and Video http://www.exclusivefilm.net Local: 416 598-2700 Fax: 416 598-0766 Toll Free: 1-888-497-9922 101-F1 Niagara St. They work mostly in super8 but I think they also do some blow ups to 16 and 35mm. Glad I could help MikeC __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

September 26th, 2003, 01:21 PM	#6
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	I've seen dozens of Super8 -> DV transfers and they look great. We just project them on to a screen and set up a DV camera beside the projector set to 1/30. It looks just as good as the projection. __________________ alextaylor.org

September 26th, 2003, 01:33 PM	#7
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Thanks Alex I realise that it can be done with great results but I'm hoping that transferring via a telecine will yield even greater results. However I'm taking your word on it and I'm borrowing my parent’s projector/screen and a couple reels to see what kind of results I get. I’ve gotten some good info already in the forum archives with respect to adjusting projecting speeds to cope with my cameras frame rate/interlacing issues. We'll see. MikeC __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

September 26th, 2003, 01:46 PM	#8
Alex Taylor Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 390	Good luck Mike! Let us know how it goes. If you want a few examples of this method, check out this site: (http://www.giftsfilms.com/onscreen/c...gory_code=SUP8). All those films were done in Super8, transferred to DV and edited digitally. May I recommend Romanticide and Intemperance :) __________________ alextaylor.org

September 27th, 2003, 12:03 AM	#9
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	i've shot super 8 for sections of commercials and transferred on ranks. kodachrome 40, ektachrome160 , tri x B&W . i have not shot any of the super 8 negative stock if you are trying to cut cost by shooting super 8 hoping for it to look like 16/35mm .. IMO you will not be satisfied. however if you are looking for a film look that has a bit of grain, a little soft or to look different then your 16/35/video it might please you.

September 27th, 2003, 08:25 AM	#10
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	Don You’re right, I wouldn’t be shooting Super8 instead of DV-only to supplement it within a TV spot. Right now we are looking to shoot in PlusX Reversal B/W, hoping that this slower speed film will minimize graininess. The camera we are looking at renting has the ability to shoot NTSC drop frame. I imagine this would be the best way of negating any pull-down issues during transfer? In fact I have to make sure the lab can transfer in the frame I choose to film in. Another thing you mentioned - “negative stock”. I did some searching and found out Kodak has now started to sell Vision 200T Super8 stock. A few labs in Toronto will process the stock but will not make working prints. Do have any idea which lab can do this in the US or Can? …Alex I viewed many films on that page including your suggestions and although I found the content quite interesting (in fact I had already seen one entry on ZEDtv here in TO), I found the quality to be very poor. Right now I will attribute this to Real Player and streaming media (I dread web media), but it did make me stop in tracks briefly. My only solace was viewing my parents old Super8 reels. I haven’t seen a projected print in a long time and forgot how good it could look. The way it handled light with a velvet glove, how good the colour saturation was and to my surprise how detailed the images were. And these films were 30 years old. I can already image how good I can make it this stuff look in a controlled environment with a manual camera and real lighting fixtures. I can’t wait to shoot some test reels and see how they turn out. MikeC __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

September 27th, 2003, 12:12 PM	#11
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Mike... Take a look at this website: http://www.moviestuff.tv/ He sells film transfer equipment and he also does film transfers as a service. Of interest is one that will step thru frames at a relatively slow rate. There's a switch that has Premiere grab a frame into the computer's hard drive. This eliminates sync problems and gets a very nice transfer. He also offers test transfers if you're interested in seeing the quality level. Hope this helps, Dean Sensui Base Two Productions

September 28th, 2003, 02:37 PM	#12
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	pro 8 offers ASA 50, 100, 200, 250, 320, 500, 800 negavtive stocks and they transfer on RANK to mini DV and other formats. http://www.pro8mm.com/us/film_frm.htm i do not know anyone that workprints it .. it is mostly used to either transfer direct to tape or blow up to 16/35 or data files made ... negative requires EXTREME care as any dust will show up as WHITE and it scratches easy ...avoid handling it .. reversal films are very forgiving on dust and handling it .. if you shoot film at 24fps and transfer to NTSC tape PULL down will be added ... up to you if you want them to transfer using drop frame or non drop TC - there is no difference to frames or amount of frames - it all ends up on NTSC tape at 29.97 ...only difference is how it is counted. i was going to post a clip of super 8 and 16 mm but after i made a 512K stream you can't see the difference between them . so i'm not posting it ....

September 28th, 2003, 03:59 PM	#13
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	If you are trying a "poor man's telecine" - that is, shooting off of a screen... it will work best if the super 8 was shot at 18 frames a second - not 24. The reason is that you will speed up the projector to twenty frames, the three-bladed shutter in the projector will create 60 images a second... and you have sync. With 24 frames per second, you are better off going through a proper pulldown. Moviestuff is good, so is super8sound in Burbank.