slowing it down...

Mark Jefferson · September 30th, 2003, 06:29 AM

Alex,

You need a DV codec installed to read the DV file. I have a Sony VAIO, and the codec came pre-installed so I don't have this problem. Anybody else out there have a solution or know where Alex can get a DV codec?

Matt,

Dynapel Slow-motion sucks. Try MotionPerfect instead. Slow-motion is known to create some really weird effects. MotionPerfect does a much better job.

Cheers,
Mark

Matt Gettemeier · September 30th, 2003, 06:57 AM

Thanks Mark... actually I need to THANK you for turning me on to Dynapel... I'll get MotionPerfect today just on your recommendation... but I'm not kidding when I say you should check out what SlowMotion does. I wasn't bullsh*tting just for effect when I said it isn't all bad.

I slowed some plays from my nephew's football game and the players would be surrounded by "stretching turf"... the grass would move and stretch around each player... mainly from the legs and down... and the really bizarre part is that if another player (from waist and up) went in front of a player that had this anamoly... it wouldn't effect the closer player! The goofy pixel shifting stays tied to the object it was originally affecting even if something else is crystal clear passing in front of the wacky shifting. That's why I said it 'aint all bad. If you wanted to create an effect like this for some reason, it would take MONTHS to pull it off.

I was going to start a new thread about this, but my feelings of "obligation to the group" will be fulfilled with this post. I can guarantee I'll use the slow-warp look in future projects and I'll stay tight-lipped about how I did it.

Mark Jefferson · September 30th, 2003, 09:46 AM

Matt,

I'm glad it works for you. I tried Slow-Motion and didn't like what it did, but I was looking at it from a wedding standpoint. MotionPPerfect can have some strange effects, but noting like Slow-Motion. I originally got into Motionperfect because Twixtor was too expensive. Now I use it all the time and people ask "how did you make the camera run so slow?" "Trade secret", I tell them. That's why they pay me the big (small?) bucks.

I hope to eventually do video full time, but right now I don't make enough money at it, so I'll continue to do this until I get laid off (again).

Cheers,
Mark

Derrick Begin · September 30th, 2003, 09:58 AM

Adjust the shutter to 120+ and shoot the remote. When played back in your NLE will be slowed, stobed a little. If that is what you are looking for. Or apply a motion effect on the clip and chop the frames down like mentioned above. (I wish I could over crank or under crank my DV)

You will need a lot of light to match the surrounding environment.

Cheers!

Derrick

Alex Zabrovsky · September 30th, 2003, 11:53 AM

Thanks Mark, I'll be looking forward to get advised about the necessary DV codec installation to try out that thing...

Any software specialists out there ??

Alex

Matt Gettemeier · September 30th, 2003, 09:21 PM

Here's my September 30th update... I've been playing with SlowMotion, MotionPerfect, AND Twixtor... and ALL of 'em do the same thing with slow-motion.

They ALL do this wacky "warp" thing on my Canopus system. I even found a post that said, "perfect slow-motion with Canopus' Speed Controller".... anyway, I downloaded that and it's just like slowing video in Premiere... no difference.

So I've been trying all different codecs to try fixing the "warp effect" and so far to no avail. I even tried uncompressed video and they all still do it.

Oh well, I'm glad I figured out that there isn't much difference between Dynapel MotionPerfect and Twixtor 'cause Twixtor is 6 times the price of Dynapel.

Thanks guys... I guess I'm out of luck on the super-slow I wanted.

Don Donatello · October 2nd, 2003, 03:03 PM

can you do a wire rig to the remote ?
do you have any wire removal software ?

Jake Rheinfrank · October 2nd, 2003, 05:18 PM

i had this idea...
shoot the remote falling, and in post, do my slowing, then double and put the new one slightly over top of it, with a screen or overlay...
say a single frame has become 2 frames in length, a 50% slow down... i would offset the new layer one frame, right where there would be that interpratated frame...
has anyone done this? could it acheive a good look?
no i dont have a wire system... but its in my apartment, right above the couch... how would i set up such a wire system...
i do have the power of inserting a 3d remote that i have designed, but its hard to replicate a object... i might just try that and see what it looks like...
well thanx all, keep it coming ^_^

thanx,
-jake

Don Donatello · October 2nd, 2003, 11:30 PM

wire .. attached fishing line (dull) or other THIN line (at 2 points ) to remote. then some type of eye ring /pully into ceiling or if you have C stand with double extension you could off set gobo head with some type of attachment for line to go down smooth ... so basically the line is controlling the speed of remote dropping .. person off camera controls the line.
the camera is LOCKED down then in NLE you might add little motion blur ... in commotion you could remove any line that is seen using wire removal ... also it might work if you drop line little faster then want it and then do little slo-mo in NLE .. ? you'll have to play with it a little to find what works best.

i do like the idea of your 3D remote... then you have total control on it falling and how it turns /spins during fall ...

Jon Yurek · October 3rd, 2003, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Thanks Mark, I'll be looking forward to get advised about the necessary DV codec installation to try out that thing...

Any software specialists out there ??

When I asked on another board about how to use DV files with VirtualDub and AviSynth, I was told that the MS DV codec was a Type 1 DV codec, and that the codec was a DirectShow-style one, which, unfortunately, Vdub can't use. AviSynth can, but, for whatever reason, it doesn't get audio yet.

So, someone pointed me towards these links: A free Canopus DV decoder (no encosing at all), which will decode all Canopus-encoded DV files, and a Canopus Type 1 <-> Type 2 DV converter which doesn't have to recompress the DV stream.

This is fine for me, since anything I rub through Vdub right now won't have to go back into another NLE, but for other people, it might be a hassle since Vdub still can't encode DV. You'd have to get the full Canopus codec for that. Or maybe the Sony one off the VIAOs, since apparently that will do Type 2 as well.

The only thing you have to worry about is that apparently Type 2 DV can be prone to audio sync issues. But IME, it's not a big deal.

Hope that helped.

Mark Jefferson · October 3rd, 2003, 06:55 AM

Hi Jon,

When I looked through the codecs in my VAIO, I did indeed have a Sony DV codec installed. I've never really thought about outputting to DV from vdub, since I use it primarily for DivX. When I use the Smart Deinterlacer, I output to HUFYUV to keep the video as pristine as I can. I'll have to see if I can get the Sony DV codec off my laptop.

BTW, is there another program that will convert Type 1 DV to Type 2 DV without loss? I don't have any Canopus anything (or other capture cards for that matter) so I don't know if the process you mentioned will work for non-Canopus users.

Cheers,
Mark Jefferson

Jon Yurek · October 3rd, 2003, 04:39 PM

Yeah, there's a Ulead one, too although that didn't work when I tried it.

You know, I wouldn't have any problems with any of this if Premiere or Vegas or After Effects could open either VirtualDub frameserver signpost files or AviSynth scripts, but they all use methods which bypass the hooks those frameservers install. This is a shame, because it would be really useful to open a DV stream in Vdub, set up some filters, and then set it to serve the frames without having to ever recompress, and (this is the best part) also without having to waste file space with a HuffYUV or extra DV file.

Jon Yurek · October 4th, 2003, 10:43 PM

Ok, after digging around a little bit I found some DV codecs that could be used. One, we have the MainConcept one, which you have to pay $50 for. Two, we have the Matrox one which is supposedly lesser quality, but it's free.

Just install one of these and both AviSynth and VirtualDub will open it beautifully, and Vdub will be able to reencode it, too.

Rob Lohman · October 7th, 2003, 02:01 PM

When working on my Lady X episode I slowed down quite a lot
of footage within Vegas 4. I think it did quite a good job.

October 2nd, 2003, 05:18 PM	#23
Jake Rheinfrank New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: santa fe, new mexico Posts: 24	remote i had this idea... shoot the remote falling, and in post, do my slowing, then double and put the new one slightly over top of it, with a screen or overlay... say a single frame has become 2 frames in length, a 50% slow down... i would offset the new layer one frame, right where there would be that interpratated frame... has anyone done this? could it acheive a good look? no i dont have a wire system... but its in my apartment, right above the couch... how would i set up such a wire system... i do have the power of inserting a 3d remote that i have designed, but its hard to replicate a object... i might just try that and see what it looks like... well thanx all, keep it coming ^_^ thanx, -jake __________________ jake rheinfrank xl-1 mac g4 sony 866 desktop student

October 7th, 2003, 02:01 PM	#29
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	When working on my Lady X episode I slowed down quite a lot of footage within Vegas 4. I think it did quite a good job. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 30th, 2003, 06:29 AM	#16
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	Alex, You need a DV codec installed to read the DV file. I have a Sony VAIO, and the codec came pre-installed so I don't have this problem. Anybody else out there have a solution or know where Alex can get a DV codec? Matt, Dynapel Slow-motion sucks. Try MotionPerfect instead. Slow-motion is known to create some really weird effects. MotionPerfect does a much better job. Cheers, Mark

September 30th, 2003, 06:57 AM	#17
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Thanks Mark... actually I need to THANK you for turning me on to Dynapel... I'll get MotionPerfect today just on your recommendation... but I'm not kidding when I say you should check out what SlowMotion does. I wasn't bullsh*tting just for effect when I said it isn't all bad. I slowed some plays from my nephew's football game and the players would be surrounded by "stretching turf"... the grass would move and stretch around each player... mainly from the legs and down... and the really bizarre part is that if another player (from waist and up) went in front of a player that had this anamoly... it wouldn't effect the closer player! The goofy pixel shifting stays tied to the object it was originally affecting even if something else is crystal clear passing in front of the wacky shifting. That's why I said it 'aint all bad. If you wanted to create an effect like this for some reason, it would take MONTHS to pull it off. I was going to start a new thread about this, but my feelings of "obligation to the group" will be fulfilled with this post. I can guarantee I'll use the slow-warp look in future projects and I'll stay tight-lipped about how I did it.

September 30th, 2003, 09:46 AM	#18
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	Matt, I'm glad it works for you. I tried Slow-Motion and didn't like what it did, but I was looking at it from a wedding standpoint. MotionPPerfect can have some strange effects, but noting like Slow-Motion. I originally got into Motionperfect because Twixtor was too expensive. Now I use it all the time and people ask "how did you make the camera run so slow?" "Trade secret", I tell them. That's why they pay me the big (small?) bucks. I hope to eventually do video full time, but right now I don't make enough money at it, so I'll continue to do this until I get laid off (again). Cheers, Mark

September 30th, 2003, 09:58 AM	#19
Derrick Begin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 329	Adjust the shutter to 120+ and shoot the remote. When played back in your NLE will be slowed, stobed a little. If that is what you are looking for. Or apply a motion effect on the clip and chop the frames down like mentioned above. (I wish I could over crank or under crank my DV) You will need a lot of light to match the surrounding environment. Cheers! Derrick

September 30th, 2003, 11:53 AM	#20
Alex Zabrovsky Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 175	Thanks Mark, I'll be looking forward to get advised about the necessary DV codec installation to try out that thing... Any software specialists out there ?? Alex

September 30th, 2003, 09:21 PM	#21
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Here's my September 30th update... I've been playing with SlowMotion, MotionPerfect, AND Twixtor... and ALL of 'em do the same thing with slow-motion. They ALL do this wacky "warp" thing on my Canopus system. I even found a post that said, "perfect slow-motion with Canopus' Speed Controller".... anyway, I downloaded that and it's just like slowing video in Premiere... no difference. So I've been trying all different codecs to try fixing the "warp effect" and so far to no avail. I even tried uncompressed video and they all still do it. Oh well, I'm glad I figured out that there isn't much difference between Dynapel MotionPerfect and Twixtor 'cause Twixtor is 6 times the price of Dynapel. Thanks guys... I guess I'm out of luck on the super-slow I wanted.

October 2nd, 2003, 03:03 PM	#22
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	can you do a wire rig to the remote ? do you have any wire removal software ?

October 2nd, 2003, 11:30 PM	#24
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	wire .. attached fishing line (dull) or other THIN line (at 2 points ) to remote. then some type of eye ring /pully into ceiling or if you have C stand with double extension you could off set gobo head with some type of attachment for line to go down smooth ... so basically the line is controlling the speed of remote dropping .. person off camera controls the line. the camera is LOCKED down then in NLE you might add little motion blur ... in commotion you could remove any line that is seen using wire removal ... also it might work if you drop line little faster then want it and then do little slo-mo in NLE .. ? you'll have to play with it a little to find what works best. i do like the idea of your 3D remote... then you have total control on it falling and how it turns /spins during fall ...

October 3rd, 2003, 06:55 AM	#26
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	Hi Jon, When I looked through the codecs in my VAIO, I did indeed have a Sony DV codec installed. I've never really thought about outputting to DV from vdub, since I use it primarily for DivX. When I use the Smart Deinterlacer, I output to HUFYUV to keep the video as pristine as I can. I'll have to see if I can get the Sony DV codec off my laptop. BTW, is there another program that will convert Type 1 DV to Type 2 DV without loss? I don't have any Canopus anything (or other capture cards for that matter) so I don't know if the process you mentioned will work for non-Canopus users. Cheers, Mark Jefferson

October 3rd, 2003, 04:39 PM	#27
Jon Yurek Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 64	Yeah, there's a Ulead one, too although that didn't work when I tried it. You know, I wouldn't have any problems with any of this if Premiere or Vegas or After Effects could open either VirtualDub frameserver signpost files or AviSynth scripts, but they all use methods which bypass the hooks those frameservers install. This is a shame, because it would be really useful to open a DV stream in Vdub, set up some filters, and then set it to serve the frames without having to ever recompress, and (this is the best part) also without having to waste file space with a HuffYUV or extra DV file.

October 4th, 2003, 10:43 PM	#28
Jon Yurek Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 64	Ok, after digging around a little bit I found some DV codecs that could be used. One, we have the MainConcept one, which you have to pay $50 for. Two, we have the Matrox one which is supposedly lesser quality, but it's free. Just install one of these and both AviSynth and VirtualDub will open it beautifully, and Vdub will be able to reencode it, too.