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Old April 16th, 2009, 09:18 PM   #1
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Direct tape to DVD possible?

Is it possible to transfer video directly from mini-dv tape (using the camcorder if need be). Cam is a SD Pana DV 852. If so which DVD burners can do this?

Why: I have a number of tapes for which I don't want to invest time right now in capturing, clipping out sections of interest etc but want a quick way of making the material easy to view and review. The end product should be in a from that is easy to view in slow or stop motion. DVD playback software seems to allow that option.

I realize this is a consumer not a pro level question.
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Old April 16th, 2009, 09:35 PM   #2
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Hi Laurence.........

One of these perhaps:

DVD Recorders - About.com

Bit of light reading:

DVD Recorder - VHS VCR Combinations - Current Top Picks for DVD Recorder - VHS VCR Combinations


Go for one with a DV input, save a shed load of hassle.


CS
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Old April 16th, 2009, 11:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Chris Soucy View Post
One of these perhaps:

DVD Recorders - About.com

Bit of light reading:

DVD Recorder - VHS VCR Combinations - Current Top Picks for DVD Recorder - VHS VCR Combinations


Go for one with a DV input, save a shed load of hassle.


CS

Thanks... but that seeks like extra kit for the job. It's just data... shouldn't need duplicate hardware to transfer it, though there's one specialized function involved.

There must be DVD burners with a firewire in and software which tells it to create a DVD from the incoming data, maybe even control the camera automatically. I don't own a television, so to me a DVD recorder looks like an oversize DVD drive that can't understand regular data and thus can't do 90% of normal tasks (like backing up large files).

Sure, the brute force approach is to pull out the wallet and get a single purpose machine, but I wouldn't use it enough for the space it takes up, then I still need to buy an external DVD burner for my PC.

Now it could be there are complications involved which I don't understand, but dv data stream ===> DVD doesn't seem like something that should require a dedicated box.
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Old April 16th, 2009, 11:50 PM   #4
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HP is doing some external DVD recorder with video input. (analog)
but it still require a PC, software, disk space, and user intervention.
you can find other video grabber (mostly usb) that allow to capture video and burn more or less directly to a DVD-r drive.
A standalone DVD burner require just to press play on the camera, record on the recorder.
and it cost almost nothing.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 12:28 AM   #5
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To be honest I haven't seen such a thing. The only way I know how to do this is by doing what was already recommended in the previous response. In my high school media class we invested in a couple of combo players (DVD/HDD/MiniDV) that served that purpose. For some events they placed an un manned camera in a wide shot of the stage and run the A/V cables to the DVD recorder and record straight to DVD and MiniDV simultaneously.

***
This is the player we used: JVC | SR-DVM700 3-in-1 Video Recorder/Player | SR-DVM700US | B&H

And while browsing, after I had written the post above, I did come across this:

Datavideo | MP6000 DVD+R/W Recorder | MP-6000 | B&H Photo Video

Panasonic | LQ-MD800 Professional/Medical Grade DVD | LQ-MD800

As you can see the price is pretty steep.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 12:54 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Laurence Spiegel View Post
There must be DVD burners with a firewire in and software which tells it to create a DVD from the incoming data, maybe even control the camera automatically.
The Sony MC5, pictured in the very first link above and widely available for about $100, does exactly what you describe. The only issue is I don't know whether it will work well with a non-Sony cam.

I have the earlier MC3 and it's a simple plug in cam, insert disc, touch one button process. An hour later you have a DVD.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 02:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence Spiegel View Post
There must be DVD burners with a firewire in and software which tells it to create a DVD from the incoming data, maybe even control the camera automatically. I don't own a television, so to me a DVD recorder looks like an oversize DVD drive that can't understand regular data and thus can't do 90% of normal tasks (like backing up large files).
Are you serious? You don't own a television? I mean, your demands are pretty special: you want a dedicated video DVD burning solution via Firewire, but you need it to work without a television? There's not exactly a great demand for such a product, I guess...

I mean, even my dad owns a DVD burner that can record DV video via firewire either directly to DVD, DVD-RAM, or HDD and then burn it to DVD. It's some three year old Pioneer thingy and the video quality it produces is amazingly good. The only thing you need to operate it is some kind of tv screen. The industry doesn't make video gadgets for people without tv sets - that would be a total bummer, wouldn't it?
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Old April 17th, 2009, 03:59 PM   #8
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Are you serious? You don't own a television? I mean, your demands are pretty special: you want a dedicated video DVD burning solution via Firewire, but you need it to work without a television? There's not exactly a great demand for such a product, I guess...

I mean, even my dad owns a DVD burner that can record DV video via firewire either directly to DVD, DVD-RAM, or HDD and then burn it to DVD. It's some three year old Pioneer thingy and the video quality it produces is amazingly good. The only thing you need to operate it is some kind of tv screen. The industry doesn't make video gadgets for people without tv sets - that would be a total bummer, wouldn't it?
"...you want a dedicated video DVD burning solution via Firewire"
No, just an ordinary DVD burner that can accept input directly from a camcorder, bypassing the computer.
"You don't own a television?" Believe it or not, as you like.
Technically this is quite simple: .avi over 1394 in ==> burn standard DVD.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 05:08 PM   #9
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Hi Laurence,

"Technically this is quite simple: .avi over 1394 in ==> burn standard DVD. "

If this is all you're after, then any "stand alone" home style DVD Burner with a FireWire imput, with/or without an HDD, should do the job. You can get them with or without a tuner.

The advantage of having the HDD, is for doing simple editing, before you burn the final DVD.

Sony has a very small and simple DVD burning unit that would do it too.

I personally have 5 of the DVR/HDD units, 2 Pana's and 3 Phillips units. With these units I can record direct to either HDD or DVD's all day long. I prefer the flexibility of having the HDD's.

Harold
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Old April 17th, 2009, 05:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Adam Gold View Post
The Sony MC5, pictured in the very first link above and widely available for about $100, does exactly what you describe. The only issue is I don't know whether it will work well with a non-Sony cam.

I have the earlier MC3 and it's a simple plug in cam, insert disc, touch one button process. An hour later you have a DVD.
That may be the solution. After a bit of search there's no trace of the DVD burner w video input. Shame, bc the TV-oriented boxes are in no way portable and they don't understand data.

Adam - Where did you find the MC5 for $100? Best I saw w Google was $160. I can't use that particular model but the same outfit may have other non-Sony options.

"Go for one with a DV input, save a shed load of hassle." --- Less hassle = good!

-- tx Chris, Adam, and Harold. I need to get an external data DVD anyway, so I'll try that first, then the recorder box if need be.

Larry
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Old April 17th, 2009, 05:44 PM   #11
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The MC5 is NOT a "data recorder" that can backup regular files. It is an external DVD recorder for video + still images via flash memory. Essentially, it is a regular external unit without the tuner but with features that you don't need (based on your DV needs).

I have two external DVD recorders both with FireWire input. One is a Sony that makes things very simple - just press one button and it controls the camcorder. It can create chapters etc etc.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 01:01 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Laurence Spiegel View Post
Adam - Where did you find the MC5 for $100? Best I saw w Google was $160. I can't use that particular model but the same outfit may have other non-Sony options.
The Sony Online Outlet has refurbs for $119, and I saw new ones at Costco recently for less than that. But if the Sony won't work for you then the price is, sadly, moot.

John's right that this is not a regular data recorder; it's really meant only for video. It has a little tiny screen on it so you don't need a TV.
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Old April 21st, 2009, 04:00 AM   #13
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"Technically this is quite simple: .avi over 1394 in ==> burn standard DVD. "

That is not technically simple in any way. Your camera does not produce .avi files. It produces DV tape which is a sequential stream of data. DVD discs are MPEG2 compression which is vastly different from DV compression. The incoming DV video must be buffered, transcoded, and written into the DVD standard with separate audio and video files with menus. The fact that a $100 device can perform all this may make it seem simple but it is not.
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Old April 21st, 2009, 07:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault View Post
"Technically this is quite simple: .avi over 1394 in ==> burn standard DVD. "

That is not technically simple in any way. Your camera does not produce .avi files. It produces DV tape which is a sequential stream of data. DVD discs are MPEG2 compression which is vastly different from DV compression. The incoming DV video must be buffered, transcoded, and written into the DVD standard with separate audio and video files with menus. The fact that a $100 device can perform all this may make it seem simple but it is not.
I did not know that the DVD standard required separate files and menus -- I'd guessed that a single data stream could be read off a DVD and converted to video, like a digital version of a vinyl record. I figured the trancoding could be handled by a commodity chip (there's probably such as asic out there) and buffering is a pretty standard function. Creating menus and splitting the raw dv stream into files doesn't sound like something trivial to do in real time via hardware.

SO, perhaps what appeared to be a dvd burner with direct camcorder connection wasn't -- I recall only a line from a product description, perhaps what they meant is that it was bundled with capture/create DVD software and the intermediate steps via PC were somewhat automated.

Anyhow, I am now hunting around for a DVD recorder. It seems like the cheaper, non blu-ray models I'm considering are already obsolete, so I don't want to spend too much. If I could get a decent one which also plays back through standard video outputs for $100 I'd say that is an amazing amount of tech for the dollar. Maybe I'm just old, but I'm amazed at how cheap computing hardware is.
And probably one more entire industry ceded to China.

Last edited by Laurence Spiegel; April 21st, 2009 at 10:36 PM.
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Old April 21st, 2009, 08:35 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Laurence Spiegel View Post
I did not know that the DVD standard required separate files and menus -- I'd guessed that a single data stream could be read off a DVD and converted to video, like a digital version of a vinyl record. I figured the trancoding could be handled by a commodity chip (there's probably such as asic out there) and buffering is a pretty standard function. Creating menus and splitting the raw dv stream into files doesn't sound like something trivial to do in real time via hardware.
There are many tools that can do it automagically and faster than real time. Nero is one. I do this quite often.

The extra files and menus are ancillary to the video but required to comply with the video DVD standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence Spiegel View Post
SO, perhaps what appeared to be a dvd burner with direct camcorder connection wasn't -- I recall only a line from a product description, perhaps what they meant is that it was bundled with capture/create DVD software and the intermediate steps via PC were somewhat automated.
No and no. Many record from the camera direct to DVD. It's not a big deal.

Remember though that the DV coming from your camera is compressed, but the MPEG recorded on the DVD is generally much more compressed. You will lose quality compared to your source tape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence Spiegel View Post
Anyhow, I am now hunting around for a DVD recorder. It seems like the cheaper, non blu-ray models I'm looking are already obsolete, so I don't want to spend too much. If I could get a decent one which also plays back through standard video outputs for $100 I'd say that is an amazing amount of tech for the dollar. Maybe I'm just old, but I'm amazed at how cheap computing hardware is.
And probably one more entire industry ceded to China.
I've had good luck with the Panasonic units. My two are two years old now and get a pretty regular workout. Pretty solid units.
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